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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 23:29:15 GMT
Once again we have some very cold evenings and early mornings ....and once again D stock trains with no saloon heating !! WHY ?!! Last year and before, we were told "the fuses have been removed" (and then lost) because the thermostat control sticks on some cars keeping the heat on during the summer ! Well, hello guys, it's not summer now ! More to the point, however, this time we are mostly refurbished D stocks, why have the fuses been removed on these ? The thermostats have certainly been moved on refurb ! I'm not sure where they are now situated, but one assumes, given the issues with them in previous years they will have also been replaced ! Tonight I had to travel home in the same train I had been driving and the saloon cars were freezing ! NOT ACCEPTABLE !  |
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 18, 2007 23:32:42 GMT
Probably because the people who make decisions about what gets fixed never have to get a train in the early morning or late evening, and if they do they'd be cosily in the cab!
I can't comment on D stock, but I definitely know that getting a Pacer on its first run of the day for 2 weeks was a thick-coat job...!
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 19, 2007 0:00:51 GMT
Once again we have some very cold evenings and early mornings ....and once again D stock trains with no saloon heating !! WHY ?!! Last year and before, we were told "the fuses have been removed" (and then lost) because the thermostat control sticks on some cars keeping the heat on during the summer ! Well, hello guys, it's not summer now ! More to the point, however, this time we are mostly refurbished D stocks, why have the fuses been removed on these ? The thermostats have certainly been moved on refurb ! I'm not sure where they are now situated, but one assumes, given the issues with them in previous years they will have also been replaced ! Tonight I had to travel home in the same train I had been driving and the saloon cars were freezing ! NOT ACCEPTABLE ! I think it's a culture thing! Old signal linemen used to remove fuses from non-safety signalling equipment to prevent having to deal with repeated calls to clear 'storages' and other TD problems. Old telephone linemen would make temporary repairs any way possible to restore comms services. Such practises became habits which were unofficially condoned and even referred to as 'quickfixes'. The problem was that pressure of work, lack of materials, lack of staff and many other excuses allowed such things to be accepted custom and practice obviating completion of proper repairs until new entrants into the grades knew no other way and blindly followed suit. I thought all such practices would have ceased with the privatisation of engineering but perhaps not! Brian |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2007 16:16:14 GMT
what you mean ' used to ' we still do  |
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 19, 2007 17:26:34 GMT
what you mean ' used to ' we still do Ah you be one of the old school then! I used to go and put fuses back at Acton and Ealing when doing my night maintenance and the day shift used to scratch their heads before they had it sussed but that was a few years ago now! AFAIK Acton is all new blood now, those who didn't become privateers or transfer to other depots I think are all SOMs with the possible exception of one man if he hasn't decided to retire early yet! Brian |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2007 18:10:02 GMT
I've noticed that a lot of trains I've picked up in the middle of the day have the heat and vent switched off (there's a simple on-off button in the cab) for no apparent reason. It works perfectly well, but the previous driver has chosen not switch it on!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2007 23:26:34 GMT
I've noticed that a lot of trains I've picked up in the middle of the day have the heat and vent switched off (there's a simple on-off button in the cab) for no apparent reason. It works perfectly well, but the previous driver has chosen not switch it on! Or chose to switch it off ? Usually because the extractor vent behind the drivers cab makes a horrendous distracting racket, so if that one works, off go the lot. As far as i know you can't trip out an individual one ! |
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Post by trainopd78 on Oct 20, 2007 18:35:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2007 11:12:25 GMT
what you mean ' used to ' we still do Ah you be one of the old school then! I used to go and put fuses back at Acton and Ealing when doing my night maintenance and the day shift used to scratch their heads before they had it sussed but that was a few years ago now! AFAIK Acton is all new blood now, those who didn't become privateers or transfer to other depots I think are all SOMs with the possible exception of one man if he hasn't decided to retire early yet! Brian im not at acton my name might give it away for where im based |
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 21, 2007 18:56:04 GMT
im not at acton my name might give it away for where im based I never for a minute thought that you were! |
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Post by District Dave on Oct 23, 2007 19:32:41 GMT
I'm compiling some information at present on this subject so that we can get a better picture overall.
I also have some information about relative workings of the thermostats which I will be able to share with you. Sadly an email with this sent to me today seems to have got lost in cyberspace; I will get it resent and impart it asap!
On a wider note, I remind my colleagues that the District line supplement states quite clearly that the heat/vent should ALWAYS be cut in (unless obviously there is a problem with it).
More to follow.
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Post by TMBA on Oct 23, 2007 19:43:13 GMT
I remember posting on here last year that I had removed a refurb from service at Barking on a very cold morning because of no heaters districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=district&action=display&thread=1132408495It seems to happen every year, the reason behind it used to be because when the doors were passenger operation IE individual car buttons to open each door the depots pulled the fuses because they wanted all the doors to open in the summer, not just one or two because the heaters were remaining on and people were becoming ill, has a funny kinda ring to it doesn't it ;D ;D ;D ;D they cant use that excuse now because of the refurb, but I bet they come up with something else. |
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Post by District Dave on Oct 23, 2007 19:44:47 GMT
Point noted TMBA - and it is one that will be raised (and probably will be read here too by interested parties; I know that they read our mutterings!
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Post by TMBA on Oct 23, 2007 19:48:46 GMT
Again about the Axel or Aksel fans however you spell it, the fans at each end of the 'D' I have a memorandum from a few years back from a certain Traffic Manager that states quite clearly that these fans are battery operated from the second car and should only operate when the juice goes off.
That again was used as an excuse to pull the fuses because they thought it would stop their operation.
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Post by District Dave on Oct 25, 2007 15:30:52 GMT
Right - this comes pretty much from the horses mouth!
"The refurbs have brand new thermostats of a new and in theory more
reliable type. We had a problem with a sizeable batch of them. This
year all the suspect ones were changed out for re-worked ones. So the
heating should work! Of course with a working thermostat it isn't as
warm on board as with a broken, jammed 'On' one. The heating turns off
at 17C, the sensor is in the ceiling grille. There's another clever bit
that senses the external temperature. If it is very cold outside, we'll
only heat the saloon to about 15-16C. Theory is, you had put a thick
coat on so would be uncomfortable if too warm...."
I know that thoughts and responses from our District T/Ops will be welcome, so post away - alternatively if you think you have something of relevance but which is to detailed to be posted please PM it to me and I'll pass it on.
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Post by Colin on Oct 25, 2007 16:15:46 GMT
"Of course with a working thermostat it isn't as warm on board as with a broken, jammed 'On' one. The heating turns off at 17C, the sensor is in the ceiling grille. There's another clever bit that senses the external temperature. If it is very cold outside, we'll only heat the saloon to about 15-16C. Theory is, you had put a thick coat on so would be uncomfortable if too warm...." That actually seems quite sensible to me - after all, you wouldn't turn on your heating at home & then keep your coat on would you? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2007 22:40:57 GMT
After you've been in on a cold platform, you need a bit more heat to warm up your now cold clothes !!! Plus each time you open the doors the colder air rushing in will chill the cooler car quicker than if it were warm enough in the first place !
(Also customers who have been drinking will loose heat quicker and others may have gone out when it was bright and sunny, plus fashion all too often commands skimpy clothing !)
All sounds too cold to me, my car climate control is set to 21 degrees and my house about the same, and that's without throwing 1/3rd of the wall space open every 2 1/2 minutes !!!
Anyway, I physically touch a few of the heater elements when i think the heaters are not working to ensure that is correct, rather than they are on but ineffective. They were not on, but the cab control was. The depot have responded to other's complaints on defect cards with the notation "fuses removed and we have not got permission to put them back yet" ... me thinks depot's need to be told they are not allowed to remove them anymore.
Anyway, I shall be insisting upon a change over for any I come across. (As I did several times last year !)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2007 1:17:50 GMT
I'm bucking the flow here, but as someone who regularly does the very last trains I nearly always switch off the heating for the last trip. Rousing drunk and drugged passengers is hard enough as it is when the train is cool, it's worse when the train is cosily warm. I'm sure many hundreds of passengers have been prevented from sleeping and have not missed their stop over the years when travelling on my train.
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Post by District Dave on Oct 27, 2007 8:09:45 GMT
I'm bucking the flow here, but as someone who regularly does the very last trains I nearly always switch off the heating for the last trip. Rousing drunk and drugged passengers is hard enough as it is when the train is cool, it's worse when the train is cosily warm. I'm sure many hundreds of passengers have been prevented from sleeping and have not missed their stop over the years when travelling on my train. Not quite sure if that would meet with the approval of the Mystery Shopper Scorecard standards or Customer Satisfaction Survey targets Jim  |
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 27, 2007 12:23:40 GMT
I'm bucking the flow here, but as someone who regularly does the very last trains I nearly always switch off the heating for the last trip. Rousing drunk and drugged passengers is hard enough as it is when the train is cool, it's worse when the train is cosily warm. I'm sure many hundreds of passengers have been prevented from sleeping and have not missed their stop over the years when travelling on my train. I used to rouse sleeping drunks by dipping one of their hands in a fire bucket of cold water. That usually did the trick. |
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Post by metman on Oct 27, 2007 12:36:39 GMT
Isn't that supposed to make people wet themselves! Risky!
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Post by District Dave on Oct 27, 2007 15:38:23 GMT
I used to rouse sleeping drunks by dipping one of their hands in a fire bucket of cold water. That usually did the trick. Personally I find my Acme Thunderer does the trick if the Control Key rapped on the nearest glass fails to rouse them:) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2007 18:38:47 GMT
Isn't that supposed to make people wet themselves! Risky! That's warm water. And I think it's a myth... |
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Post by Colin on Oct 27, 2007 19:29:10 GMT
Being first aid trained when I was on the stations (though it's run out now as LUL don't let their drivers have the training) , I learned the pinching ear technique - it works a treat every time |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 27, 2007 19:40:54 GMT
I think it was someone banging the glass I was asleep against that woke me up at Epping last night!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 7:48:54 GMT
I learned the pinching ear technique - it works a treat every time I would not want to do that to the vagrant who refuses to get off because he claims he is homeless or the person who has vomited or pi$$ed over themselves, all of these I have witnessed over the years. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 7:51:57 GMT
I think it was someone banging the glass I was asleep against that woke me up at Epping last night! That's the first step in waking sleeping passengers which we all take, it is normally OK for people who are just sleeping, less effective when the passenger is drunk or drugged. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 7:53:00 GMT
I used to rouse sleeping drunks by dipping one of their hands in a fire bucket of cold water. That usually did the trick. Personally I find my Acme Thunderer does the trick if the Control Key rapped on the nearest glass fails to rouse them:) Dare I ask what your Acme thunderer is? |
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Post by trainopd78 on Oct 28, 2007 10:14:54 GMT
Its a whistle. I've got one and very loud it is too. |
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Post by Colin on Oct 28, 2007 11:24:49 GMT
I learned the pinching ear technique - it works a treat every time I would not want to do that to the vagrant who refuses to get off because he claims he is homeless or the person who has vomited or pi$$ed over themselves, all of these I have witnessed over the years. That's why I also carry carry rubber gloves in my bag - not had to use them at the east end yet, but had to get fresh supplies all the time at the west end! |
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