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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:18:10 GMT
Why does the Jubilee Line have special doors at every station?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:24:05 GMT
the jubilee line does not have platform edge doors at every station
only stations between north greenwich and westminster have them
they were fitted beacause they reduce the ''piston effect'' which is basically the train blowing heat, dust and dirt from the platform and down the tunnel and thus the tunnel is alot cleaner and stations are slightly cooler
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:26:31 GMT
the jubilee line does not have platform edge doors at every station only stations between north greenwich and westminster have them they were fitted beacause they reduce the ''piston effect'' which is basically the train blowing heat, dust and dirt from the platform and down the tunnel and thus the tunnel is alot cleaner and stations are slightly cooler OK, but why only the Jubilee Line? ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:34:06 GMT
the jubilee line does not have platform edge doors at every station only stations between north Greenwich and Westminster have them they were fitted because they reduce the ''piston effect'' which is basically the train blowing heat, dust and dirt from the platform and down the tunnel and thus the tunnel is a lot cleaner and stations are slightly cooler Does anyone know whether fitting all underground sections with PEDs would be cost effective compared to air conditioning, which as we know is prohibitively expensive? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:36:09 GMT
Because the Jubilee Line Extension was built relatively recently in 1999, and i'd assume they only just realised it was a good idea or technology issues, somebody else can confirm this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:40:10 GMT
the jubilee line does not have platform edge doors at every station only stations between north Greenwich and Westminster have them they were fitted because they reduce the ''piston effect'' which is basically the train blowing heat, dust and dirt from the platform and down the tunnel and thus the tunnel is a lot cleaner and stations are slightly cooler Does anyone know whether fitting all underground sections with PEDs would be cost effective compared to air conditioning, which as we know is prohibitively expensive? Aparently the PEDs paid for themselves a year or so after use in fewer service suspensions such as trespass, one unders and tunnel fires. With the rest of the tube network you can't just put up a line of PEDs due to lack of alternative ventilation. The JLE was built with PEDs in mind and draught and wind flows were took into account at the building stage. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:44:01 GMT
Using PEDs on existing lines would be hugely expensive and difficult - they require a very straight platform and a lot of money.
They also mean that the door layout of trains is limited to the PED layout. The PEDs also mask the inadequate width of the platforms on the JLE to an extent.
The JLE is cooler than other lines because there are more fans that are modern and effective - I wouldn't expect PEDs on existing lines to make much difference.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 20:51:20 GMT
Because the Jubilee Line Extension was built relatively recently in 1999, and i'd assume they only just realised it was a good idea or technology issues, somebody else can confirm this. So does this mean that the East London Line will have special doors? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 21:22:21 GMT
Being Sub-Surface along the ELL route and completely open further North and South I would think this negates the usefulness of them, and the safety benefits of stopping people ending up on the track for whatever reason are considered more of a side benefit.
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Post by metman on Aug 22, 2009 23:48:14 GMT
The Victoria Line is probably the only line that could be provided with PEDs because most of the platforms are straight. This is the key to the PEDs.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 24, 2009 10:17:41 GMT
The Victoria Line is probably the only line that could be provided with PEDs because most of the platforms are straight. This is the key to the PEDs. Maybe, but many of the Victoria's platforms are quite narrow, so that might be an issue. |
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Post by metman on Aug 24, 2009 13:38:56 GMT
All the more reason to have PEDs then. It would make it safer on the platforms I would imagine.
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 24, 2009 13:47:58 GMT
The Victoria Line is probably the only line that could be provided with PEDs because most of the platforms are straight. This is the key to the PEDs. Maybe, but many of the Victoria's platforms are quite narrow, so that might be an issue. I wouldn't call any of the Vic platforms narrow, they are all comparable to the other tube lines and indeed better than some. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 24, 2009 16:33:45 GMT
Hong Kong MTR have managed to install PEDs at 30 stations, 74 platforms retrospectively, (on curved platforms too), without the disruption to train services. This was to add air-conditioning to stations.
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Post by messiah on Aug 24, 2009 18:17:21 GMT
Using PEDs on existing lines would be hugely expensive and difficult - they require a very straight platform and a lot of money. Hong Kong MTR have managed to install PEDs at 30 stations, 74 platforms retrospectively, (on curved platforms too), without the disruption to train services. This was to add air-conditioning to stations. I would have thought it would be technologically trivial to do curved platform doors. Are there additional safety concerns regarding the gap between platform and train as against normal curved platforms? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2009 19:43:00 GMT
in any case the delays generated by the Platform Edge Doors when they fail (and they do quite a lot) far outweighs any benefits.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 28, 2009 0:08:26 GMT
I suspect increased maintenance costs to keep operating tolerances within installation limits might be a factor with curved PEDs (there's probably some sort of risk weighting too with MTBF standards). Let's not forget that these things are expensive - dread to think what the cost would be for one platform let alone umpteen, unless the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation tenders for a job lot.  ;D |
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Post by abe on Aug 28, 2009 7:58:37 GMT
It's not true to state that platforms on the Jubilee line with PEDs have to be straight. The platforms with PEDs at Westminster are slightly curved.
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Post by abe on Aug 28, 2009 8:00:49 GMT
in any case the delays generated by the Platform Edge Doors when they fail (and they do quite a lot) far outweighs any benefits. Can this be quantified? It contradicts Reply #5: I haven't seen anything official stating that the PEDs are such a problem... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 14:39:28 GMT
I haven't seen anything official stating that the PEDs are such a problem... I recal reading that in a copy of OTM, I can't find that exact fact online, but I found the following which does claim the doors whilst costly in maintenence have saved money in the reduction of suicides. The item is about a third way down the page. www.railway-technical.com/stations.shtml |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2009 14:49:05 GMT
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 28, 2009 14:59:04 GMT
They do gap fillers aswell! Why is it gap fillers have never been installed at the really curved platforms you get on the system?
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 28, 2009 22:16:15 GMT
The line 'WPSD Railservices maintain the doors' seems an excuse for another layer of cost if that statement is true.
Lifts and Escalators look after Kone and Otis equipment, why can't they look after PEDs too?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2009 9:26:04 GMT
They do gap fillers aswell! Why is it gap fillers have never been installed at the really curved platforms you get on the system? Hello from Paris, Gap fillers have been (are being ?) tested on the metro line 5, (back of one of the platforms at the loop terminal station "Place d'Italie") A robust system still has to be found ! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2009 9:32:38 GMT
The Victoria Line is probably the only line that could be provided with PEDs because most of the platforms are straight. This is the key to the PEDs. Hi again, In Paris, prior to introduce automatic trains on line 1, they are currently installing PEDs (during the night closure: a few pairs of doors every night). Some stations have sharp curves (Charles de Gaulle-Etoile or Bastille). But the platforms are slighty wider than they are on your Tube lines. This allows to use straight doors, the angle being in the fixed section between adjoining sets of doors. The design may waste 10 to 20 cm (4 to 8 in) which is not critical. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2009 21:10:20 GMT
Re: Question
« Reply #18 on Aug 28, 2009, 9:00am »
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Aug 24, 2009, 8:43pm, southernrover wrote:in any case the delays generated by the Platform Edge Doors when they fail (and they do quite a lot) far outweighs any benefits.
Can this be quantified? It contradicts Reply #5:
Quote:Aparently the PEDs paid for themselves a year or so after use in fewer service suspensions such as trespass, one unders and tunnel fires.
I haven't seen anything official stating that the PEDs are such a problem...
You won't see anything official unless you request It under the FOI act but as I write the failure and delay reports for them I am in a position to comment.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 31, 2009 21:16:41 GMT
Oh. Well is there an arguement for their removal?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 1:33:44 GMT
The PEDs won't be removed because. It would be a legal minefield. Any accident or injury to anyone. Which wouldn<t have happened if the PEDs were in place would be subject to.compension claims.
Also once an additional safety system iis in place? It virtually never gets removed.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 1, 2009 1:36:50 GMT
So will it be avoided on future schemes? Like the Northern and Bakerloo bits in South London; obviously a speculative thing though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 1:46:39 GMT
There seems to be a differing opinion here, but as I said, I had read that the PEDs had paid forthemselves, so who knows!
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;D
