|
Post by tubeprune on Sept 26, 2007 16:23:58 GMT
I heard that someone drove out of Ealing Common on Monday morning with a lead in. The leads got mixed up with the track and caused a signal failure. I thought you got an audio and visual warning when Motoring on Shed Plug on the D Stock. Can any I/Os out there explain this one?
|
|
solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
Posts: 1,215
|
Post by solidbond on Sept 26, 2007 16:35:42 GMT
Although there are still indications on the TMS, and the audible alarm should sound (although on some units it doesn't ) this only works when the 630v is being drawn through the overhead lead receptacle box. A year or two ago, the overhead leads in the SSL depots were replaced, and the new ones are powered down before being removed. However, while this means that it is safer to remove the leads, in that they are now 'dead' before being removed, the down side is that, if a train moves off with the lead plugged in but powered down, there will be no indications on the TMS
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Sept 26, 2007 17:00:17 GMT
I certainly recall that there was a failure in the ACT area on Monday morning, but haven't heard about a lead problem. I will try to remember to check the incidents for the day; but would have expected that it would have gone round the depot - the gossip would be irresistable
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2007 17:03:04 GMT
We had this happen at Northfields a while ago but no indications came up on the CDU. The driver had checked the train but someone had stuck a lead in again. Fortunately he had good hearing and stopped the train before dragging half the roof off. Now all leads are supposed to be removed by the depot staff before the train enters service. I take it either a lead was put back in again or the driver missed it completely. I always tell my trainees to look down both sides of the train before leaving the depot because of what happened before.
DOC
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Sept 26, 2007 17:10:58 GMT
We had this happen at Northfields a while ago but no indications came up on the CDU. The driver had checked the train but someone had stuck a lead in again. Fortunately he had good hearing and stopped the train before dragging half the roof off. Now all leads are supposed to be removed by the depot staff before the train enters service. I take it either a lead was put back in again or the driver missed it completely. I always tell my trainees to look down both sides of the train before leaving the depot because of what happened before. DOC Absolutely - the process with us is now the same. The depot staff now remove the leads (or should do!). We also train to visually check down both sides of the train before moving off and to keep an eye on the TMS 'just in case'.... There was an incident, probably a couple of years ago now, when one of the inter peak stablers was coming out in the afternoon with a DMT conducting a TD1 with the driver and pulled a lead down. Strangely enough it didn't make the Daily Review and according to the DMT it never happened. My own eyes must have deceived me !!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Sept 26, 2007 19:34:02 GMT
I certainly recall that there was a failure in the ACT area on Monday morning, but haven't heard about a lead problem. I will try to remember to check the incidents for the day; but would have expected that it would have gone round the depot - the gossip would be irresistable The failure occurred at 06:40 at WL103A EB Picc train 330. D Stock leads found near the points into the platform. Confirmed later as from T127 ex EC Dt.
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Sept 26, 2007 19:36:13 GMT
We had this happen at Northfields a while ago but no indications came up on the CDU. The driver had checked the train but someone had stuck a lead in again. Fortunately he had good hearing and stopped the train before dragging half the roof off. Now all leads are supposed to be removed by the depot staff before the train enters service. I take it either a lead was put back in again or the driver missed it completely. I always tell my trainees to look down both sides of the train before leaving the depot because of what happened before. DOC Yup, I've heard the trolley rattling along as I've started up too and this was when we had guards who were supposed to check too. It was on a 38 with a lead in on the wrong side! That was a close one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2007 0:58:35 GMT
Although there are still indications on the TMS, and the audible alarm should sound (although on some units it doesn't ) this only works when the 630v is being drawn through the overhead lead receptacle box. Thanks for that info - I didn't realise that!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2007 1:53:46 GMT
Can any I/Os out there explain this one? Why is this only addressed to I/Os I as well as most T/Ops could have answered this?
|
|
|
Post by District Dave on Sept 27, 2007 9:34:34 GMT
I've checked the day's review and this certainly did happen!
The driver concerned is an Acton man (of some considerable service!) and was stood down and interviewed.
I assume all was resolved as he was certainly back on the road today.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 23:52:38 GMT
After hearing that the new overhead leads didn't necessarilly light up on the TMS when motoring is demanded (probably heard it from Solidbond) I tested it about a month or so ago, when I noticed depot staff had left a set in. I can confrim no TMS visual illuminated or alarm was sounded (obviously I didn't test them too far !)
This buisness of leaving leads in seems to occur when more than one set have been inserted on different sides of the train !
I have seen a set dragged out of Northumberland Park depot by a train ... a nice set of sparks and they then wrapped themselves around the shoe beam !
|
|
towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,970
|
Post by towerman on Oct 5, 2007 18:48:10 GMT
Shunter at Hainault took 6 sets down between 57 & 58 rds one night,they were the old round type head and came out quite easily when they reached the end of the shed.Left a large pile of leads outside the shutter.All the train needed was a recep box change.
|
|
|
Post by Hutch on Oct 5, 2007 20:45:28 GMT
On the basis that s**t happens couldn't something be made more frangible in this system?
Mine lifts have weak links in the winding system to minimise damage to life and property in the case of a head-gear overwind - airport runways lights are designed to collapse if struck rather than seriously damage the aircraft.
Would not a set of weak links in the lead where it enters the train help mitigate the damage that one of these events entails?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 20:50:31 GMT
Isn't it on the Eurostars that the emergency coupling that can split a train in two costs £30,000 to replace!
|
|
|
Post by suncloud on Oct 5, 2007 21:16:57 GMT
On the basis that s**t happens couldn't something be made more frangible in this system? Mine lifts have weak links in the winding system to minimise damage to life and property in the case of a head-gear overwind - airport runways lights are designed to collapse if struck rather than seriously damage the aircraft. Would not a set of weak links in the lead where it enters the train help mitigate the damage that one of these events entails? I imagine it would have to be very well designed to avoid live ends flying around either in the depot, or perhaps worse on the train (as they would become live if the train is on current rails).
|
|
solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
Posts: 1,215
|
Post by solidbond on Oct 5, 2007 23:43:01 GMT
What needs to be considered is that the leads need to be strong enough to allow the train to actually be moved with the leads in place. In the depot environment there will be a member of depot staff holding the leads to ensure they move with the train. Thus, the 'weak point' needs to be in a position that the person holding the leads is NOT going to get a shock from the leads. The new style leads, which I will try to get a picture of next week, have a large control box attached to them for switching them on and off. Needless to say, the 'weak point' needs to be between that and the train, but close enough that if it did break, the part the depot staff are holding (ie the control box) can not suddenly snap back and give them a shock. As a result, the 'weak point' is not far below the control box. This still gives about 4-6 feet of cable between the 'weak point' and the train.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Oct 6, 2007 1:35:21 GMT
Well here's one to start you off (probably not much help though)........
|
|