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Post by johnb on Sept 5, 2007 9:53:30 GMT
Anyone know why it's taking so long to bring the SSL back to life this morning compared with the BCV?
In my ignorance I'd've thought the tube lines would require more attention before restarting the service...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 5, 2007 13:16:24 GMT
For starters, the Metronet strike was called off late last night - around midnight - so the Metronet rostered early turn staff may not actually be aware and may well have not turned up for work as expected.
Then we have a game of catch up - train preps [that must be done by a fitter within the 24hrs prior to a train entering service] & track walks that need to done (usually within 48 or 72 hours, depending on specific site). I suspect off the top of my head that the Bakerloo, for example, has less trains that need prepping and so they'd consequently have less of a problem starting up quicker.
From the District's point of view, well Upminster at least - my morning went like this (all times approximate):
0610 Book on - no trains prepped for service. 0715 2 trains prepped, 2 to follow within 20 mins - Barking shuttle proposed by service control, to start by 0800. 0800 Barking shuttle shelved as track inspection not completed Barking sidings to Bow. Trains remain in depot. 0930 8 trains now prepped by depot - 26 trains (out of usual 29) expected to be available. 1000 Service control requests that 3 trains are put into Upminster platforms in readiness for Barking Shuttle (2 further trains to follow and make up the service). DMT only allows trains up to the reception roads to prevent customers hopes being built up - track walk still not complete. 1100 14 trains now prepped. 1120 ASLEF & RMT union reps request written proof that the track walk has been completed as they have confirmed the Barking to Bow section as having exceeded the laid down time limits. Depot now working towards making 28 out of the usual 29 trains available. 1145 C stocks from Triangle sidings start limited Earls Court to Mansion House service. 1300 Service control & line management request that a train is made available to collect track inspectors from an unknown location (that's right, nobody actually knows where these people are!), and ride through the Barking to Bow section.
I was released to go home at 1330 - lets just say that the track cannot be properly inspected from a train cab, and that there was continuing 'discussion' on this point when I left work.
I probably shouldn't have posted some of this information, but I think the public ought to be aware that unfortunately this is is why they haven't been offered a service at the east end of the District.
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Oracle
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RIP 2012
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Post by Oracle on Sept 5, 2007 13:39:52 GMT
I have to say that, as having been a grandson of a late Underground p/way engineer* (it's in the blood) and having dug up and laid enough track by hand in the past, it is stretching a point in my very respectful opinion that track can be visually assessed from the front of a train. I know that it is not the same by any token but we all know what can happen (as in Cumbria) if track is not inspected carefully.
*Gang foreman; member of the Institute of Railway Engineers. He had his fair share of repairing war damage!
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Post by stanmorek on Sept 5, 2007 14:20:59 GMT
Cab ride inspections are a useful tool but nothing more than that - I agree with Oracle they are not a substitute for a track walk.
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TMBA
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Post by TMBA on Sept 5, 2007 15:13:42 GMT
When I left Upminster at 1430 they still hadn't completed all of the track walks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 15:22:53 GMT
Is there any chance of a full service being avaliable today
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Post by happybunny on Sept 5, 2007 15:35:57 GMT
From a west end point of view this is what happened:
I booked on just after 0500 and told the same as Colin: No trains available. At 0730 all drivers told be ready as trains expected to start coming out from 0800 when more depot staff arrive. Further updated that there are no depot staff! Later (about 8.30) it was told that one shunter and one cleaner arrived at Ealing common depot. Myself and various other T/Op's were required to work all out stabled trains (2 @ Eab, 1@ ECT, 1@ HSK, 1@ MAH, 1 @thl) to Ealing common depot, now a shunter was there to set the route etc. These trains all needed two people as they had not been prepped, and not passed a tripcock test. I took one from EAB to the depot and was hoping I would go home after that (if only). It then emerged there was no hope of getting any trains out of Ealing common depot due to no staff to prep. When I left at about 12.30-45hrs about 10 drivers were being sent down the depot to report to DDM as techs had arrived and started to prep trains, but I left then and don't know what happened after (EAC Depot looked quite full when I was going past later at about 1615). There was, as far as I know, C stocks from Triangle running Putney Bridge to Tower Hill and D stocks from PG running Ealing to Whitechapel this afternoon.
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Post by c5 on Sept 5, 2007 16:08:47 GMT
The first on the District was a shuttle 600-604 of C Stocks (ex Triangle) Olympia-Mansion House about 11.45ish I think, then alterted to Putney Bridge (via the shunt on the bridge) - Tower Hill. At about 12.50 there were 10 D Stocks No. 500-511 running Ealing - Whitechapel about every 10-15 minutes.
Happy Bunny, where was this train at Ealing? Had it been vandalised.
As the above have said trains needed to be taken back to depot, cleaned, fixed and prepped. Also the tracks needed to be checked too.
The SSR I believe out-stabled a lot more trains than BCV, which doesnt help matters too much.
Still no word on when East Ham-Whitechapel and Richmond- Turnham Green and Putney Bridge - Wimbledon will resume.
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Post by happybunny on Sept 5, 2007 16:12:08 GMT
Happy Bunny, where was this train at Ealing? Had it been vandalised. There was 2, in 8 and 9. Both heavily vandalised..... (sleeping supervisor.. who knows?)
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Post by District Dave on Sept 5, 2007 18:34:01 GMT
Though Rest Day today I had to get to St James for Duty Managers assessments (yawn) and called in at ACT on my way. This was about 07:15ish. The TOM was there and just about to check the junction at Hanger Lane (don't make any funny quips ) and there was talk of vandalised trains at EBDY - this was always going to happen IMHO. The plan was for two T/Ops to go to EBDY for each train so that they could be returned to ECMDT. Though there was much preparation of plans for trains to come out and drivers being pencilled in it was always going to be a 'fluid' plan. My biggest gripe in all this is that it was 'us' operational staff that were taken the venom from the punters - there was too much tarring with the same brush. But I suppose this is always the way - the ones who are there get the blame for being on strike!!!!! Think people......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 18:59:11 GMT
TBH I dont know why the district controllers didnt sort out a plan of how to get every back to the depot before 1800. Thats what happened on the met, at least that way it would save a few pounds here and there
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Post by c5 on Sept 5, 2007 19:17:47 GMT
TBH I dont know why the district controllers didnt sort out a plan of how to get every back to the depot before 1800. Thats what happened on the met, at least that way it would save a few pounds here and there There was! Very detailed too! I guess either they ran late or were planned to outstable so there were trains in ZOne 1 toward the end. The whole customer information about the whole Action, was truly shambolic on TfLs part! Not good at all.....
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Post by District Dave on Sept 5, 2007 19:24:05 GMT
I have a copy of the plan and tbh it was viable.
Possibly it was a little ambitious in keeping trains out a little too long, but it wasn't far short of the mark.
I was assisting at ACT in booking crews on and getting people in the right places at the right times. IIRC it only went wrong by a couple of trains - not too bad in all the circumstances.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 19:25:21 GMT
TBH I dont know why the district controllers didnt sort out a plan of how to get every back to the depot before 1800. Thats what happened on the met, at least that way it would save a few pounds here and there Metronet will be paying for that costly mistake not TfL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2007 15:28:02 GMT
well i was supposed to be early turn wed,thur,fri but i got a txt on my phone at 01:20 on wed morning about the strike and go back to work but it was too late for me so i went nights instead there was nobody at earls court (aet's) until the late shift which started at 14:50 the track inspectors are based at griffith house they dont visually look at the track from the cab they are there to feel what the actual ride quailty is but at the end of the day they are only wanted a signature on a piece of paper so if a p-way inspector deems it safe and something happens then they got someone to go after
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2007 18:56:55 GMT
From the District's point of view, well Upminster at least - my morning went like this (all times approximate): 0610 Book on - no trains prepped for service. 0715 2 trains prepped, 2 to follow within 20 mins - Barking shuttle proposed by service control, to start by 0800. 0800 Barking shuttle shelved as track inspection not completed Barking sidings to Bow. Trains remain in depot. 0930 8 trains now prepped by depot - 26 trains (out of usual 29) expected to be available. 1000 Service control requests that 3 trains are put into Upminster platforms in readiness for Barking Shuttle (2 further trains to follow and make up the service). DMT only allows trains up to the reception roads to prevent customers hopes being built up - track walk still not complete. 1100 14 trains now prepped. 1120 ASLEF & RMT union reps request written proof that the track walk has been completed as they have confirmed the Barking to Bow section as having exceeded the laid down time limits. Depot now working towards making 28 out of the usual 29 trains available. Why couldn't a service be operated from Upminster to Hornchurch or Dagenham East (thus feeding the C2C at Upminster) even if the track Barking to Bow hadn't been checked ?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 6, 2007 18:59:13 GMT
I'll give you some initials - TE & BT It was made pretty clear who was in what role during the morning
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Post by c5 on Sept 6, 2007 19:07:22 GMT
From the District's point of view, well Upminster at least - my morning went like this (all times approximate): 0610 Book on - no trains prepped for service. 0715 2 trains prepped, 2 to follow within 20 mins - Barking shuttle proposed by service control, to start by 0800. 0800 Barking shuttle shelved as track inspection not completed Barking sidings to Bow. Trains remain in depot. 0930 8 trains now prepped by depot - 26 trains (out of usual 29) expected to be available. 1000 Service control requests that 3 trains are put into Upminster platforms in readiness for Barking Shuttle (2 further trains to follow and make up the service). DMT only allows trains up to the reception roads to prevent customers hopes being built up - track walk still not complete. 1100 14 trains now prepped. 1120 ASLEF & RMT union reps request written proof that the track walk has been completed as they have confirmed the Barking to Bow section as having exceeded the laid down time limits. Depot now working towards making 28 out of the usual 29 trains available. Why couldn't a service be operated from Upminster to Hornchurch or Dagenham East (thus feeding the C2C at Upminster) even if the track Barking to Bow hadn't been checked ? In the end only 2 trains were available for the East Ham to Upminster section, until the track inspection between there and Whitechapel/Tower Hil was complete.,,, I thought the resumption was handled well and was dealt with on a line basis, with stn staff being kept informed!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 6, 2007 19:38:33 GMT
I thought the resumption was handled well and was dealt with on a line basis, with stn staff being kept informed! It may well have appeared that way from a service control perspective, but it certainly didn't appear that way from the train staff's point of view. Edit: BTW, at what point are you saying that only 2 trains were available? As I said above, 8 trains were ready from 0930 - and the depot was full of drivers........so much so that it was a good job the weather was nice as we couldn't all fit in the messroom!!
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Post by c5 on Sept 6, 2007 19:47:05 GMT
I thought the resumption was handled well and was dealt with on a line basis, with stn staff being kept informed! It may well have appeared that way from a service control perspective, but it certainly didn't appear that way from the train staff's point of view. Edit: BTW, at what point are you saying that only 2 trains were available? As I said above, 8 trains were ready from 0930 - and the depot was full of drivers........so much so that it was a good job the weather was nice as we couldn't all fit in the messroom!! When it started at that end, only two trains were running. I know that it took a while to complete the track inspections. As to Train Ops not being kept informed, there are many ways that the DMTs are kept up to date, and indeed can find out themselves.
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