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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 11, 2009 17:22:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 17:23:43 GMT
Hmm, a giant birds nest?
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Post by upfast on Jul 11, 2009 17:31:47 GMT
Errr..... I am silenced!
Are trains running past here today!
very very worrying that this can make it through design and installation.
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Post by 21146 on Jul 11, 2009 19:03:57 GMT
No doubt a co-acting signal will next have to be installed on the R/H side of the track for 'spad mitigation' purposes...
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Post by 21146 on Jul 11, 2009 19:04:56 GMT
At least last week's engineering shutdown was used gainfully!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 19:19:42 GMT
Staggering!!!!! One would presume that the Drivers H&S reps are aware of this monstrosity. The only thing that I can say about it is that, sadly, such things come as no surprise any more.....
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 11, 2009 19:22:26 GMT
H&S gone crazy! Absolute madness like a great deal of the a**e covering exercises taken over the last decade. Putting a cage at the top of the ladder to prevent the lineman/maintenance technician from falling over the parapet is good H&S while obscuring the aspects is simply unforgiveable. Negligence and Incompetence spring immediately to mind. A far better idea would have been a full cage with a four aspect aperture where it really is needed allowing the signal to be properly sighted all the way from the sighting point and protecting anyone requiring to work on the signal head.
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Post by 21146 on Jul 11, 2009 19:57:19 GMT
Presumably driving snow could build up on that mesh thus going against all LT (if not, LU) principles of signal sighting?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 11, 2009 21:07:25 GMT
*boggle* *shakes head in utter disbelief* Were the drawings the right way round?  |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 11, 2009 21:23:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 22:24:50 GMT
this all stemmed from one of our support techs having a fall last year at plaistow since then all signal posts / ladders have had a structure survey done on them with around 15% of them being unsafe for use so this is the outcome they are toying with the idea upon resignalling to have a signal head design like a speed camera where it can be lowered to ground height so a t/o can safely maintain and relamp
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2009 23:52:34 GMT
I... I... I... I don't know what to think of that.
The mind boggles. I feel sorry for District drivers who have to sight the aspects through that.
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Post by 21146 on Jul 12, 2009 1:50:26 GMT
this all stemmed from one of our support techs having a fall last year at plaistow since then all signal posts / ladders have had a structure survey done on them with around 15% of them being unsafe for use so this is the outcome they are toying with the idea upon resignalling to have a signal head design like a speed camera where it can be lowered to ground height so a t/o can safely maintain and relamp Presumably most colour light signals will go under SSR ATO/ATP? |
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Post by pakenhamtrain on Jul 12, 2009 3:05:16 GMT
It looks like someone has gone to the shopping Centre and nicked a trolley and put around the signal! Even at that close a distance it's hard to see the bottom lights. Surely you can not have the mesh and just have the rails?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 3:48:44 GMT
ATO is a long long way away yet. but i beleive station starters and junction signals will still be there
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 7:32:10 GMT
While the cage does look crazy - am I right in thinking that there is a 20-30ft sheer drop the otherside of that wall.
So techincal officer goes up that ladder, slips and then possibly falls the 30ft to the ground!
From the photographers point of view, the Green on the signal head looks visible, and as it's approaching the station then the repeater would only be useable for non-stopping trains (am I right in that assumption).
So from my non driving, non technical point of view it comes down to the safety of the T/O against the possibility of an accident caused by a SPAD.
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Post by tubeprune on Jul 12, 2009 7:41:54 GMT
Has anyone complained officially about this?
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Post by Tomcakes on Jul 12, 2009 10:19:32 GMT
Surely, in a case where the driver cannot ascertain the aspect of a given signal, they bring the train to a stand and investigate. If every driver did this with this particular signal...
I'd have thought there would be better ways of stopping falls - for example, using a safety harness?
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 12, 2009 10:45:36 GMT
While the cage does look crazy - am I right in thinking that there is a 20-30ft sheer drop the otherside of that wall. So techincal officer goes up that ladder, slips and then possibly falls the 30ft to the ground! From the photographers point of view, the Green on the signal head looks visible, and as it's approaching the station then the repeater would only be useable for non-stopping trains (am I right in that assumption). So from my non driving, non technical point of view it comes down to the safety of the T/O against the possibility of an accident caused by a SPAD. There are dozens of such places across the Underground. This looks to me like just another experiment and poorly thought out, designed and implemented at that. Signal maintenance staff have been working in such places since the year dot and while I agree that a measure of H&S is right and proper I can't help wondering what the statistics are in terms of linemen falling off viaducts, bridges and other such structures in performance of their duty. As a former Maintenance and Installation TO I cannot recall any,that is not to suggest that none occurred but only that I am unawre of any H&S instructions being issued as a result of such an incident. It is good practice to use the safety harnesses which signal staff have available to them but one must remember that there are supposed to be different types of harnesses for different activities and I am not aware that more than one type is available or that staff are properly trained in their use. This was certainly not the case when I was a lineman and in all honestly I doubt that harnesses are used with any regular frequency even today. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 12:49:28 GMT
How often is access needed to the front of signals?
I get the impression not very often - while access to the back is sufficiently common for a fixed access ladder to be provided, I don't think I've ever seen one to the front.
So it seems to me that providing a work cage at the front in this case is a matter of the tail wagging the dog.
Or we could always remove all the risks of the tube by closing and demolishing the lot....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 14:24:07 GMT
signals are maintained every 10 weeks / 12 weeks depending on the line so access is required then. ladders are provided at the front but only on the really tall ones
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 15:55:19 GMT
signals are maintained every 10 weeks / 12 weeks depending on the line so access is required then. Is that to front or back or both side of signal? If there is no front ladder is the maintainer expected to be able to reach up from the ground? (or round from the back?) Or does he take his own ladder? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 12, 2009 16:19:46 GMT
If this has been designed by the Civil Engineers then I'm not surprised. We did have a lot of difficulty educating them about signalling a few years ago and I suspect not all of them learnt.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 12, 2009 17:48:53 GMT
Surely thats common sense though? You wouldnt do that to a traffic light housed on a bracket, afterall.
Theres a scene in one of those 50s videos on youtube of the tube, and it shows a linesman working on signalling. Casually walks up to a signal, mounts it, wipes the lens with a rag, then carries on with his walk.
Any spads yet? Presumably no one is happy with this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 19:47:55 GMT
Did the signal upset someone and this has been installed for its own protection in case of reprisal attacks?
No? Then a nice bit of signal sighting!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 21:05:59 GMT
signals are maintained every 10 weeks / 12 weeks depending on the line so access is required then. Is that to front or back or both side of signal? If there is no front ladder is the maintainer expected to be able to reach up from the ground? (or round from the back?) Or does he take his own ladder? when maintaining a signal its back front and the structure itself when there is no ladder on the front if it is safe to reach round then the lenses would get a clean aswell and the plate if it is not safe then it is not done |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 13, 2009 13:41:04 GMT
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Post by setttt on Jul 13, 2009 14:58:04 GMT
No doubt a co-acting signal will next have to be installed on the R/H side of the track for 'spad mitigation' purposes... The current preferred method of 'SPAD mitigation' seems to be to impose ludicrous 10mph TSRs as seen approaching Blackfriars both roads, which are an insult to drivers who know the road properly, slow the service down even more (if that's even possible!) and cause an increased SPAD risk to following trains. /thread drift  |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 13, 2009 15:11:17 GMT
The current preferred method of 'SPAD mitigation' seems to be to impose ludicrous 10mph TSRs as seen approaching Blackfriars both roads, which are an insult to drivers who know the road properly, slow the service down even more (if that's even possible!) and cause an increased SPAD risk to following trains. /thread drift Blackfriars and the reasons for the calculated speed restrictions have been covered in detail elsewhere in this forum here; Motormen that 'know the road properly' wouldn't have a SPAD risk. Back on-topic: It is encouraging to see that the platform has been amended - is it too much to hope that the amendments will go further, removing the top bar and amending the cage to avoid the trip hazard with the remaining low horizontal in front of the aspects? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2009 15:13:31 GMT
The modification is a marginal improvement but no more than that. If Network Rail are anything to go by then the signal will probably ultimately be removed to avoid any other problems.
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