SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
|
Post by SE13 on Nov 30, 2009 20:59:11 GMT
Reminded by watching kids tv with the children tonight, as Bob the builder would say, "all work together and we'll get the job done"
<Blatant plug> Of course the members meet on December 12th will see the last day of the Circle as we know it </blatant plug>
Many happy memories of skiving school when I was a kid, just riding the Circle all day, that's why they have changed it. 26½ years after I left school and they finally caught up with it! Actually, I was speaking to my Dad the other day, and they did it in his day as well.
In short, TfL are being spoilsports to all potential skivers.
Happy days, meanwhile back on topic..........
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Nov 30, 2009 22:14:15 GMT
I don't think militant action will be the downfall of this timetable... All it will take is a signal failure! To be honest, as many of us have already agreed, this could indeed be the downfall. Much "better" in a way to have it fail on this, than to have it withdrawn due to staffing issues - which despite the background detail, will only ever been seen by outsiders as "awkward drivers." I'm sure you know what I'm getting at here, and now I have said my piece. |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 2, 2009 13:08:56 GMT
Oh dear! Now the bad news, new C Stock blinds are in lower-case!!
I passed a H&C train going to 'Barking'. It was only one I saw though.
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 2, 2009 13:34:50 GMT
I'm told lower case words are easier to recognise at a distance, because although the individual characters are usually smaller, the complete words have different overall shapes depending on the positions of letters with "risers" (b, d, f, h, k, l, t) and "hangers" (g, j, p, q, y).
To take an example, HAMMERSMITH and WHITECHAPEL both have eleven letters, and thus look very similar from a distance. However, Hammersmith and Whitechapel have different shapes, mainly beause of the "h" and "p" in the middle of the latter.
(On reflection, a better example might have been Watford and Chesham,
or Uxbridge and Amersham as they are more likely to go from the same platform)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 13:52:10 GMT
I'm told lower case words are easier to recognise at a distance, because although the individual characters are usually smaller, the complete words have different overall shapes depending on the positions of letters with "risers" (b, d, f, h, k, l, t) and "hangers" (g, j, p, q, y). To take an example, HAMMERSMITH and WHITECHAPEL both have eleven letters, and thus look very similar from a distance. However, Hammersmith and Whitechapel have different shapes, mainly beause of the "h" and "p" in the middle of the latter. (On reflection, a better example might have been Watford and Chesham, or Uxbridge and Amersham as they are more likely to go from the same platform) Lower case destination indications are a requirement of the Disability Discrimination Act for the reasons quoted above. However C stock is not subject to the DDA so there was no need for it on them. The lower case font purports to be easier to read by the partially sighted, but ONLY when the font is the same size. Hence lower case blinds are only fitted to buses that have the newer larger destination display equipment, the older blind display equipped buses retain upper case destination displays. By this reasoning the C stock should have retained upper case as the display size can not be increased. (qv. the same discussion about the poorer readability of the D stock displays when squeezed into the same space). As for the aesthetics and readability by the averagely sighted. When this stuff first came in we lined up two dart buses in Walthamstow Central Bus Station, one with an Upper case display and one with a lower case display and enquired of random passers by what they preferred aesthetically and which they found easiest to read. On both counts almost everyone preferred the all Upper Case display. Speaking personally I wear glasses but the strength is weak. I could read from the headwall an Upper Case dot matrix indicator at Holborn mounted about half way down. I can't read the replacement lower case display. hey ho ! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 14:29:27 GMT
Lower case destination indications are a requirement of the Disability Discrimination Act ......As for the aesthetics and readability by the averagely sighted. When this stuff first came in we lined up two Dart buses in Walthamstow Central Bus Station, one with an Upper case display and one with a lower case display and enquired of random passers by what they preferred aesthetically and which they found easiest to read. On both counts almost everyone preferred the all Upper Case display. Come Come ! The DDA doesn't give a stuff for the normally/averagely sighted at all, except that as the bulk of the taxpayers they are expected to pay for it all. But be careful. Anyone who publishes results like the ones described above, or even arranges such tests, which do not immediately show the DDA as the equivalent of the Second Coming of the Messiah, must regard it as severely career-limiting. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 14:39:10 GMT
Many happy memories of skiving school when I was a kid, just riding the Circle all day, that's why they have changed it. 26½ years after I left school and they finally caught up with it! Actually, I was speaking to my Dad the other day, and they did it in his day as well. In short, T fL are being spoilsports to all potential skivers. All I remember of J P Donleavy's "The Ginger Man" is the hero's being told, on setting out from the Ould Sod to London Town: whatever you do, stay off the Circle Line - it being a given that he would be, as they say in those parts, stotious... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 0:22:11 GMT
The train with this blind in passed me this evening, also going to "Barking" when I saw it. It was only a passing glance but it didn't look as if the blind was in the correct original "Johnston" font (which is also specified for all TfL Bus blinds). It looked more like "New Johnston Bold" (used on leaflets and such like) However, I did only get a passing glance, in the dark, in heavy rain. So I could be wrong. Must examine one closer ! It also happened to be in the middle of a convoy of C stock to "BARKING"/ "Barking" and it's display was the least clear, though I imagine longer destinations will show up the shortcomings of lower case in the same size display to a greater extent. Still that's progress.  ;D |
|
vato
Zone 6D - Special Fares Apply
Posts: 131
|
Post by vato on Dec 3, 2009 1:14:36 GMT
The C stock I caught from Aldgate East w/b tonight had blinds that read as:
Hammersmith
via Paddington
Really quite small, and hard to read from any distance (despite me normally preferring mixed case for legibility reasons).
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Dec 3, 2009 13:15:47 GMT
Funny how the size of destination display lettering has reduced since the introduction of LEDs and DMI technology (see refurbed D and 73 Stock). How does that help the partially-sighted? Back to the New Circle, I see Paddington (Praed Street) closed yesterday due to fire alarm problems. This fault did not affect Paddingtron (Suburban), but what with all passengers having to use the latter, the single staircase and access bridge was completely overwhelmed and the station quickly closed, with all trains non-stopping, "to prevent overcrowding".
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 3, 2009 14:51:49 GMT
Few more getting done obviously overnight, today saw:
Circle line
via Aldgate
The 'via Aldgate' is quite small and hard to read.
Edgware Road
Wimbledon
These two at least fill the width of the box!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 0:20:30 GMT
I also saw the "Circle Line / via Aldgate" - on a C stock at Westminster on the westbound. Clearly it was not going via Aldgate at that point! Are there other "via" options for Circle line as well? And I agree that the "via Aldgate" is very small.
Tomorrow I have a whole day of C stock so I'm hoping to get one of the new blinds!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 10:25:10 GMT
I also saw the "Circle Line / via Aldgate" - on a C stock at Westminster on the westbound. Clearly it was not going via Aldgate at that point It would eventually have gone to Aldgate - after HSK, BkS and KXSP? |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Dec 4, 2009 11:14:47 GMT
Is there actually still a plain "CIRCLE LINE", or even "Circle line" (note the typically babyish Janet & John small 'l' for Line, despite it being a proper name) on the new blinds, for use up until Dec 13th and afterwards when engineering work permits full circle round trips to run? I always thought the destination blind issue would be where this new service would fall down. At present, Circle Line blinds are never changed, and nor are west-end H&C blinds, which are usually left on "HAMMERSMITH via SHEPHERDS BUSH" all day. And the east-end display was normally left on "WHITECHAPEL" outside of peak hours until all-day running to Barking commenced about 10 or more years ago. So, suddenly, blinds are going to be changed all over the place all day? Good luck I say. (Or maybe bring back the Trainman's Inspector grade to stand at strategic points to keep an eye on all of this.) I remember a well-known transport photographer, now retired, who was a DCM at Neasden and, before that, an RSM on the Met & Bakerloo Lines. He once spent a morning by the buffer stops at Hammersmith (Met) station ordering the Guards to correctly change the rear C Stock blinds to "WHITECHAPEL". Just over an hour later all these trains came back W/B, and still showing Whitechapel on the front...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 12:32:19 GMT
"I ate you Butler!!!" ;D ;D ;D
You'll probably find that they will be pretty much similar to what they are currently, as the service will still run Edgware Rd to Edgware Rd then reverse back to Edgware Rd, then onto Hammersmith, so the circle is in effect still current, with only the Edgware Rd-Hammersmith section requiring the change on that stretch. Noting from previous posts it does seem the they will have added a via message to indicate the general direction of the train. In terms of blind changing, it is one of those "rules" that has been allowed to slip over the years, it will be interesting to see if new methods are enforced or if they still stay the same!
Have only recently seen a circle with both "Edgware Road" and "Aldgate" on the rear, mind you how many people pay attention to the rear - let alone the front of a train, specially when its flying past you when entering the station! ;D
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Dec 4, 2009 14:55:56 GMT
"I ate you Butler!!!" ;D ;D ;D You'll probably find that they will be pretty much similar to what they are currently, as the service will still run Edgware Rd to Edgware Rd then reverse back to Edgware Rd, then onto Hammersmith, so the circle is in effect still current, with only the Edgware Rd-Hammersmith section requiring the change on that stretch. Noting from previous posts it does seem the they will have added a via message to indicate the general direction of the train. In terms of blind changing, it is one of those "rules" that has been allowed to slip over the years, it will be interesting to see if new methods are enforced or if they still stay the same! Have only recently seen a circle with both "Edgware Road" and "Aldgate" on the rear, mind you how many people pay attention to the rear - let alone the front of a train, specially when its flying past you when entering the station! ;D Harry the Hat by chance?? |
|
|
|
Post by JR 15secs on Dec 4, 2009 15:20:57 GMT
"I ate you Butler!!!" ;D ;D ;D You'll probably find that they will be pretty much similar to what they are currently, as the service will still run Edgware Rd to Edgware Rd then reverse back to Edgware Rd, then onto Hammersmith, so the circle is in effect still current, with only the Edgware Rd-Hammersmith section requiring the change on that stretch. Noting from previous posts it does seem the they will have added a via message to indicate the general direction of the train. In terms of blind changing, it is one of those "rules" that has been allowed to slip over the years, it will be interesting to see if new methods are enforced or if they still stay the same! Have only recently seen a circle with both "Edgware Road" and "Aldgate" on the rear, mind you how many people pay attention to the rear - let alone the front of a train, specially when its flying past you when entering the station! ;D Harry the Hat by chance?? No it must have been FWI |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 4, 2009 15:29:29 GMT
May have seen a plain:
'Circle line' this morning, or may have been the 'via Aldgate' version wound down!
As we discussed many posts back, according to staff magazines, there should be a:
Circle line
to Hammersmith too.
Still wondering what the H&C 'Hammersmith' is?
HAMMERSMITH
via SHEPHERD'S BUSH will go, maybe:
Hammersmith
via Wood Lane or
Hammersmith
via Goldhawk Road
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 16:15:40 GMT
Would it be a possibility, once the HELIX line starts, if there were some problems on the Paddington to Hammersmith section, for trains to be again temporarily run in a circle? Or would they be shuffled back and forth from Edgeware in both directions? [That doesn't seem possible].
What does the current H&C do if this problem arises?
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Dec 4, 2009 16:16:45 GMT
Harry the Hat by chance?? No it must have been FWI FWI indeed. Well-deduced. |
|
|
|
Post by JR 15secs on Dec 4, 2009 16:22:31 GMT
FWI indeed. Well-deduced. I could put your initials but that would not be wise. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 18:15:43 GMT
Here's the full list (as it appears inside the cab, I haven't seen all of them from the public side yet):
Not in service
Circle Line to Edgware Road
Circle Line via Aldergate*
Circle Line to Hammersmith
Barking
Hammersmith via Paddington
Plaistow
Edgware Road
Goldhawk Road
Whitechapel
Aldgate
Aldgate East
Liverpool Street
Moorgate
Farringdon
Kings Cross
Baker Street
Wembley Park
Embankment
South Kensington
Circle Line
Gloucester Road
Upminster
West Ham
Ealing Broadway
Richmond
Mansion House
Tower Hill
Earls Court
Putney Bridge
Parsons Green
High Street Kensington
Olympia
Wimbledon
Edgware Road
Hammersmith via Paddington
Goldhawk Road
Not in service
*Correctly spelled Aldgate on the public side!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 18:58:05 GMT
Here's the full list (as it appears inside the cab, I haven't seen all of them from the public side yet): <snip> Circle Line via Aldersgate* Circle Line to Hammersmith Barking Hammersmith via Paddington <snip> *Correctly spelled Aldgate on the public side! Does 'Hammersmith via Paddington' mean via Royal Oak or via Bayswater? And the correct version of Aldersgate is Barbican - Aldgate is a different station... |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 4, 2009 20:07:56 GMT
Interesting that Neasden and Wembley Park are no longer on the blinds. Granted they haven't been needed for years though. Wembley Park is there according to adw. New ones are: West Ham Goldhawk Road. Hammersmith via Paddington, is indeed odd - considering the possible routing via Earl's Court! Also the fact that from Royal Oak to Hammersmith it will be 'wrong'. The retaining of Olympia, Ealing, Richmond, Upminster is also odd, as the DVA can't be set up for those! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 21:30:24 GMT
Oh dear. "Hammersmith via Paddington" is very ill thought out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alight on Dec 4, 2009 21:49:46 GMT
Since the Circle and Hammersmith services are not subject to any planned engineering works this weekend, does anyone know whether they will be trialing the new T-Cup service?
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 4, 2009 21:53:48 GMT
Jut been looking into this, and it looks like the Circle is, by soem margin, the longest-established service pattern on the Underground - 125 years and 2 months of going round in circles.
Of the Met's current termini, only Hammersmith was open in 1884 - the main only went as far as Harrow on the Hill - and the Hammersmith services were not extended to Whitechapel, let alone Barking, until several years after opening the extension (which was the same time as the Circle). (They did run to New Cross, but not from Hammersmith, and anyway that's a different service pattern
As for the District, although it already reached Richmond and Ealing (and Putney Bridge) there was of course no through service to Upminster (or indeed Edgware Road - the District didn't venture over Metroplitian metals until 1926. I don't know when the present Ealing-Tower Hill service started, but it can't have been before the present TH, with its turnback facility, opened in 1946.
There have been national rail services running for more than 125 years of course - Waterloo to Windsor for example.
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 4, 2009 22:09:01 GMT
D Stock are getting new car line maps: - I noticed the 1992 stock has them as well - interchange to Circle Line at White City. (Also a nice little sticker at Hainault - another wheelchair hidden underneath so you soon won't have to go all the way to Roding Valley ) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 22:24:36 GMT
Has anyone seen any new car line diagrams on 1973 Stock on the Picc with 'Circle' at Hammersmith (as on the D Stock)?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 22:26:15 GMT
Since the Circle and Hammersmith services are not subject to any planned engineering works this weekend, does anyone know whether they will be trialing the new T-Cup service? Nope. The 3 trial weekends have been and gone and been labeled a "tremendous success" (although not by me or any of my colleagues). They are now going full steam ahead with the introduction of the new timetable on 13th December. You won't see a full service this weekend either as they are so short of T/Ops!! |
|
;D 
