Edgware Road - Wimbledon

no as C stocks can be diverted to other destinations and D stocks to High street Kensington.

If anything it makes it more complicated and on line maps on the trains it says change for Edgware Road service.

Er, Wimbledon, Wimbledon Pk, Southfields, East Putney...

Robster has quite succinctly summed up why the line is as it is and some of the complications in creating a whole new line to itself.

Remember too that when there are problems - particularly between High Street Ken and Edgware Road - trains are diverted, often to Mansion Hse e/b and to either Ealing Broadway or Richmond if the problem is towards Wimbledon. If the line were seperated the drivers would not be part of the normal District service and not trained for these routes. Of course if there are service disruptions again C Stocks are used to cover gaps - your proposal would dramatically reduce flexibility.

On Robsters point about the Rayners Lane/Uxbridge service, this is an old chestnut that does resurface from time to time. There is no doubt that the Picc would like to get rid of it but it's not as simple as that! I'm pretty sure that this topic has been discussed on this forum before - maybe if Colin spots this he may be able to direct you towards the thread(s)!

There is too of course the point that as that branch was built by the District we would only be reclaiming what is rightfully ours !

I've been up there once I'll have you know - well except other than as a passenger on a 73TS!

Yes, there is a clearance issue, albeit that a D Stock does go under - there is a cautionery limit for sub-surface stocks, but it is really just a precaution - and A60's frequently come down the branch on their way to Ealing Common Depot when they're going to be run on the Test Track.

I too have heard that it's back on the cards, but one of the biggest problems is a shortgae of rolling stock; I did once work out how many additional trains would be needed to fulfil the same slots as the Picc does - I can't remember the answer, but I think it was about 12 - and we don't have that number of trains sitting around; indeed at the moment with the refurb programme there are days when trains have to be cancelled because of stock shortages!

Perhaps when the new S Stock starts arriving there could be possibilities, but this is still some way off, as you know.

Thanks Colin!

Plenty of reading material there!!!

I would respectfully remind you that both ADW and myself are Instructor Operators on the District line - I think we know what we're talking about!

Please re-read reply #6 above.

Its not seperate to the district. The Rolling Stock can run everywhere on the District (excpet east of barking sidings). It shares most of it's route with the D Stock service and changing it to another line would only, in my opinion cause further confusion to the customers, as well as a fair bit of cash.
It share the same Train Operators and Crew Depot as the rest of the line.
It is not un-common for a District C Stock to be diverted to Olympia, Richmond, Ealing or to Mansion House.

The H&C and Circle are both run with the same Rolling Stock and Operators, but unlike the ERD-WIM the routes go off in very different directions.

Well arguably there are 5 distinct District services:

Olympia - High St Ken
Edgware Rd - Wimbledon
Upminster - Wimbledon (Barking-Wimbledon on Sundays)
Upminster - Richmond
Tower Hill - Ealing Broadway

However early morning, late evening and peak hours there are all sorts of combinations of the above, e.g. Ealing Broadway - High St Ken, Ealing Broadway - Upminster, Richmond - Tower Hill.

And that's just the scheduled ones! Add special working and service disruptions and it really does work as one line.

As there are six destinations on the District, no matter what point-point we do for each of the service patterns, it's always going to cause a problem somewhere... All it will take is for a hold up at any junction and the whole kaboodle goes up the wall!

What's unclear about waiting on the platform for a train which says WIMBLEDON or EDGWARE ROAD on the front?

How? And by creating a new line it wouldn't just be 'rebranding'. By your own proposition you're creating a new line; this would mean new depots (as in traincrew depots), training specific to the routes that the 'new' line would be operating; they would no longer be District drivers, so therefore not qualified over the whole of the current diagram.

What are you talking about? The only part of the line that the Olympia and Edgware Road services do not share are the short branch to Olympia (which remember is also used to divert other rains for service recovery) and between Hight Street Kensington and Edgware Road. HSK is also used both for a wide variety of 'booked' moves at the beginning and close of traffic and - again - service diversions and recovery at other times of the day. I would put money on it that virtually every day trains are diverted to HSK; by your proposal this would be lost.

What? Tell me where; I've been driving those routes for seven years now and there is commonality with all routes, as mentioned above.

No - by your proposition they would not be; they would now be a seperate line. Remember, there is 'route qualification' here. As an example I (as a District driver) cannot take a train from HSK on the inner rail to Gloucester Rd; similarly a Circle/H&C driver cannot go further towards Earls Court than Triangle sidings.

And also the District operating over the fast; these are specifically trained and refreshedmoves - not just an ad hoc thing

No they don't become District trains - they are specific moves to the Circle/H&C - which ARE all part of the same line.

Irrelevant. Similarity and knowledge in rolling stock is something entirely different to knowledge of routes and moves.

In closing I have to say you seem to lack a fundemental understanding of how train operation works - I suggest you try to get a better grasp on how the railway is organised before making such sweeping propositions.

If it becomes a different line then obviously a current district driver who is allowed to drive over the whole district 'network' can run all those "new" lines. Why would a new line need a new depot? What's wrong with using the same one?

The Wimbleware and Kensington Olympia shuttle use a different route in zone 1, i.e. Earl's Court to Edgware Road, whereas the other services use Earl's Court to Adlgate East. That seems pretty clear to me?

What I'm saying about the Picc. is about how you can still run special morning services, diversions via the other branches etc. just like other lines on the network do.

For some reason "different line" seems to mean new depot, new tests for drivers and all for you. I don't see why it would!
And I actually do know a District Line ex-driver and now station operator (at Earl's Court) who is all in favour of doing this, so I don't think my knowledge is the problem here.

Edit: exactly as Chris M says above, too.

Welcome to the group Kyle (from another District Line driver), congratulations of your first two posts. If nothing else you have managed to stir up plenty of discussion.

Whilst there are many ways in which the Edgware Road service is separate there are many links, as commented by various other posters. Some of the separations include the fact that most Upminster and Barking based drivers are not trained to drive C stock and equally are not route learned beyond High Street Kensington to Edgware Road. many passengers also seem to see it as a distinct entity from the District Line, though they seem to keep referring to it, irritatingly, as the Circle Line. I frequently have customers insisting they caught a Circle Line train to Earl's Court so they MUST be able to get one back !! The separate nature of the service is not helped by the internal Line diagrams on C stock failing to reflect the other moves the stock sometimes make, and equally confuse the unaware, by giving the impression the District Line only serves the small part shown on the car diagrams. There is no theoretical reason for not renaming the section. It would not prevent the interworking or diversion of the stock no more than the H&C and Circle do so. If a Circle is diverted to Hammersmith it simply becomes a H&C. Likewise if a "wimbleware" is diverted to Mansion House it simply becomes a District. Drivers can be route learned upon more than one line (as H&C and Circle drivers are, likewise Central Line drivers at Leytonstone also cover Waterloo and City Line).

I suppose the real answer despite it being possible to do is there is no compelling reason to actually do it. The costs involved in changing the signage at stations, trains and maps about the system would be huge.

Hope you'll continue to join the discussions Kyle, this is a good place to learn loads about the system and we enjoy a lively debate !

I was thinking that myself i know thiers station supervisers and assistants not operators, what do they do, operate the platform, or the gates!! Never heard of something so bizarre before!