Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2006 20:41:11 GMT
Now that Connect has been in use for a while, how greatly has it changed the driving experience 'on the front'?
ISTR complaints about the loss of group-broadcast information on delays, lack of callbacks from the LC, continuing unfamiliarity with the equipment, and so on...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 22, 2006 21:36:02 GMT
I just know someone is going to disagree, but from my perspective.... In the past, it was possible to get a general idea of what was going on by putting 2 & 2 together from the line controllers messages. That has changed a lot now that the line controller can talk to individual trains - that said, it does depend on which line controller is 'on'. Some are good at using the group broadcast to continue 'giving clues', whilst others will make more use of the individual facility which takes the rest of us 'out of the loop'. The D stock having the Connect handset positioned at knee level is absolutely ridiculous - we are supposed to be able to push a button without lifting the handset to enable a conversation. Trouble is the person at the other end can't hear you! So we have to lift up the handset every time we wish to talk The Connect unit is set up such that it maintains a talk group based on the signalling areas (Upminster cabin, Earls Court desk, Richmond cabin, etc) - which is great, until it decides to change groups as you travel along the line.......beep........beep, beep,beep..............beep, beep....ooppppss, was the line controller saying something? On the plus side, it is clearer - and we can talk to our DMT's without leaving the cab. That's assuming the DMT in question isn't scared to actually use it The DMT's can even tell you where your train is - quite a novelty at Earls Court as they never had a clue before! I thought the line controller had the same unit - so he should know which train is where too (well the signalling diagram and trackernet should help too) - but he still says what is your location driver?! Infact he should also know your leading car number (for defect logging) - but he still asks for that too. Has Connect actually made communications better? On the whole I don't think it has - but it is also still early days (the signallers still aren't fully on board yet ).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2006 21:45:03 GMT
Motorman said that Barking's Connect terminal is online and in use by the signalmen there; have the other two east end signalboxes begun using their terminals yet?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 22, 2006 21:54:35 GMT
I have only spoken to Barking, signal operator wise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2006 17:22:05 GMT
I agree with all Colin's comments.
Also, I would add that the controllers seem to have got even worse at answering the radio! When you press the LC button it says the call is queued but then it just disappears without being answered.
On Monday I needed a second right at Temple at about 9am (not a good time to cause a delay!) and I must have spent over 5 minutes trying several times to call the controller, first by using the LC button, then by just using the press to talk to try and get a response. Eventually the controller called me when he saw all his trains stacking up on the eastbound!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 0:42:36 GMT
The other issue is the cab unit being stuck on the wrong signal group - but I have worked out how to fix it! See the Connect again thread on the Circle/H&C board.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 12:07:44 GMT
From the responses in this and other topics on Connect in everyday use I get the impression a great number of the issues are actually not technical but human.
Human in the sense that getting used to the system and changing old procedures would probably fix these issues. No need to change settings or replace devices which would very likely be a costly and time-consuming thing.
Getting stuck in the wrong signel group is obviously a technical issue but LC's not responding to T/op's seems to me more an issue that can be solved by changing the way LC's used to work.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 19:50:44 GMT
From the Service Operators perspective: The DMT's can even tell you where your train is - quite a novelty at Earls Court as they never had a clue before! I thought the line controller had the same unit - so he should know which train is where too (well the signalling diagram and trackernet should help too) - but he still says what is your location driver?! Infact he should also know your leading car number (for defect logging) - but he still asks for that too. Not that i have had a play with the equipment for real yet, however i know excatly why the LC still asks those questions, that is because to get to such details as location and leading car number, you have to go to another screen. The location is only as good as what the Train Operator puts into his box in the cab, as there is no GPS involved in it. I am actually looking forward to using connect and found it easy to use when i had my training, but maybe thats coz im younger than most ? Also, I would add that the controllers seem to have got even worse at answering the radio! When you press the LC button it says the call is queued but then it just disappears without being answered. The only way that can happen is if the LC deletes the call from their call list
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 22:46:17 GMT
but LC's not responding to T/op's seems to me more an issue that can be solved by changing the way LC's used to work. I agree with that. Not that i have had a play with the equipment for real yet, however i know excatly why the LC still asks those questions, that is because to get to such details as location and leading car number, you have to go to another screen. The location is only as good as what the Train Operator puts into his box in the cab, as there is no GPS involved in it. We (the drivers) don't input any location information - that is determined by the Connect infrasructure automatically, in much the same way as your mobile phone's location can be pin pointed (ie, Connect knows the location of each mobile unit, and presents that information on one of the controllers screens). Whilst I accept that the information is on two different screens - they do have two screens in Earls Court control room dedicated to the line controllers position. One can show the calls, whilst the other can show locations Incidentally, when we call the Line controller using the 'LC' button - the unit (AFAUI) will show the trains unit number - so why do they ask if it's there in front of them? I am actually looking forward to using connect and found it easy to use when i had my training, but maybe thats coz im younger than most ? No, it's because the training is set up in such a way as to make it look easy ;D ;D Trust me, the real thing is quite different - especially if you were shown on a laptop ;D ;D They only tell you what they think you should know, not what you really need know. The only way that can happen is if the LC deletes the call from their call list That is incorrect (probably wrong info given at training). It will display on a cab unit for around 30 seconds, then it will disappear. It will still be shown on the line controllers screen
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Nov 24, 2006 23:16:31 GMT
I have to step in here to clarify some points on the training issues. As one of those who delivered Connect training, I felt we were seriously let down by the fact that the fact that the training aids were perhaps not as good as we would have liked and things kept changing. We'd tell someone something one day, then a few days later would be told 'that's now changed, and this is how it will work' It was too late to tell the previous trainees about this, so we just started telling the next lot the new information. What happened? We got told that they'd changed it again Unfortunately, the training we give can only be as good as the information we receive. In the case of Connect, because it was all brand new, no-one knew exactly what would happen when it went live, or what features would be available, until quite close to the roll-out. Certainly when I delivered the training I made a point of telling people that the real learning would begin when it went live, and all we could give was an overview of how it should work, and what it was capable of doing.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 24, 2006 23:24:34 GMT
I don't think anyone blames the trainers - as you say, the information they gave was given in good faith.......and the equipment they used is simply what was supplied.
My only point is that future users ought to be aware that the current training doesn't necessarily reflect actual operation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 23:46:33 GMT
Have any unofficial training aids been produced yet?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2006 23:48:14 GMT
Have any unofficial training aids been produced yet? A sledgehammer is provided in the Emergency Equipment box! [sorry, just had to add that!]
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2006 7:31:30 GMT
We (the drivers) don't input any location information - that is determined by the Connect infrasructure automatically, in much the same way as your mobile phone's location can be pin pointed (ie, Connect knows the location of each mobile unit, and presents that information on one of the controllers screens). No, i am aware that you do not, but if you were to input a wrong number, the controller would be reading wrong information. Incidentally, when we call the Line controller using the 'LC' button - the unit (AFAUI) will show the trains unit number - so why do they ask if it's there in front of them? Creatures of habit! If you have done something for X amount of years im sure its hard to stop! No, it's because the training is set up in such a way as to make it look easy ;D ;D Trust me, the real thing is quite different - especially if you were shown on a laptop ;D ;D No we actually played with the real dispatcher terminals that we now have in the cabin. That is incorrect (probably wrong info given at training). It will display on a cab unit for around 30 seconds, then it will disappear. It will still be shown on the line controllers screen Ah. Just goes to show! lol
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Nov 25, 2006 22:13:19 GMT
I can understand why the project is late and over budget,there was a possession in SMD last night to splice cables into a connection box to do with the Connect project,they turned up,took the possession but were unable to find the connection box until someone realised it was actually on the main line,possession cancelled and they've now got to rebook for the main line,all that expense of booking the original possession wasted and now it's got to be done again!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2006 22:19:54 GMT
Unbelievable.
And the infracos wonder why they are constantly slagged off and bemoaned in the press. Left-hand/right-hand coordination is rather important for something as significant as Connect - I wonder if this sort of thing has happened before.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Nov 26, 2006 1:19:37 GMT
Yep,people turn up with nothing published and wonder why they get refused access,wrong information published in EWSA or engineering notices,people turning up without the correct certification for working in the depot,I tell you sometimes here we see more cowboys than in a John Wayne film!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2006 4:22:31 GMT
Unbelievable. And the infracos wonder why they are constantly slagged off and bemoaned in the press. Left-hand/right-hand coordination is rather important for something as significant as Connect - I wonder if this sort of thing has happened before. I didn't think Connect was anything to do with the InfraCo's, and that it was an LU project from the start.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Nov 26, 2006 5:59:30 GMT
Thales is the firm invoved in the maintenance,also the existing radio system,a firm called Flour Global is involved in the actual installation of equipment,but these cock ups with possessions aren't just confined to Connect work,other contractors,including PPP firms have been guilty.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 26, 2006 9:53:39 GMT
When I think of the amount of planning we had to do to get possessions for even such simple things as installing a temporary fence beside the line it does make you wonder about the attitude of those in charge of LU projects. Take Thales for instance. When we worked with them once or twice (on NR) their attitude to possession planning was absolutely professional and this sort of cockup would never have been tolerated. Perhaps those in control of LU projects see them as a soft touch and manage them accordingly.
(Mind you, we did go through a signalling cable on the Birmingham-Bristol main line because the Thales diagram showed it buried 800mm deeper than it actually was..........)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2006 16:58:00 GMT
Thales is the firm invoved in the maintenance,also the existing radio system,a firm called Flour Global is involved in the actual installation of equipment,but these cock ups with possessions aren't just confined to Connect work,other contractors,including PPP firms have been guilty. Oh don't I know it. I wasn't trying to defend anyone, but blame where blame is due. For once, the InfraCo's can't be blamed for a cock-up when it comes to Connect.
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