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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2009 18:08:56 GMT
I'm posting this here because the topic concerns more than one line. No doubt the thread will be moved if it's in the wrong place.
To-day Stratford had no tubes on either the Central or Jubilee, and no DLR. Yet the main line service seemed able to cope.
Obviously this was due to engineering work, but it set me thinking. What are the relative costs of running the extremities of the network on a Sunday as against a replacement bus service?
Do engineers' possessions lead to a drop in traffic offering?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 19, 2009 18:13:03 GMT
Jubilee Line is running to Stratford OK today.
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Post by Chris M on Apr 19, 2009 19:20:10 GMT
I don't know how typical my usage was, but when I was living in Debden the presence or absence of a sunday service would be a factor in my decision to go out or not.
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 19, 2009 19:56:36 GMT
One of the things which sets London's transport apart from most of the rest of the country is that it is run as a service. Yes, it may be riddled with replacement buses, full of irritating announcements and horribly complex ticketing systems - but, ultimately, it is being run for the good of the traveling public, NOT as an instrument to generate revenue.
Removing Sunday services on the grounds of profitability would, IMO, contradict that.
I have certainly changed my plans around the presence (or lack thereof) of engineering works.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2009 21:22:12 GMT
Obviously it's possible to run shorter trains on a Sunday; I came back from Kings X to Potters Bar today, stopping service, and it was only three carriages (as opposed to four or more normally on a weekday, I believe).. but fairly well populated nonetheless.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 19, 2009 21:41:00 GMT
The evolution of the Sunday services is a long and complex story and not something that could easily be given justice in a forum post. What is evident is that trains are carrying more passengers than ever before - to replace the same service density with buses just is not practicable - you'd still need to pay T/Ops unless you are advocating a whole series of pay negotiations prior to introducing RRBS!  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2009 22:04:03 GMT
I was planning a walk in Epping Forest for today, but when I saw that Central line will not work I went on Saturday. Certainly a lot of people did the same.
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Apr 20, 2009 10:00:15 GMT
Obviously it's possible to run shorter trains on a Sunday; I came back from Kings X to Potters Bar today, stopping service, and it was only three carriages (as opposed to four or more normally on a weekday, I believe).. but fairly well populated nonetheless. The main line train companys eps c2c and the great eastern line through Romford need to wake up and realise that very often, mostly because of underground engineering work that saturday and sunday services can be just as busy and crowded as the rest of the week, yet they still think that 4 car only sets are good enough for the weekend - NO ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH Many times i have travelled on a packed c2c or great eastern train on a saturday or sunday which was only 4-car and been forced to stand (which with my mental health issues is not good) and i just wish there had been a train manager there to rant on to. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2009 12:43:16 GMT
With the Romford branch line to Upminster, I believe that 4 cars is the maximum that can be accommodated..
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Post by suncloud on Apr 25, 2009 8:30:25 GMT
A key consideration in the WCML renewals was that beyond the recently completed works that full line closures at weekends should be avoided because of increased trends of saturday and more significantly Sunday travel.
Students and weekly commuters add significantly to passenger traffic on the mainlines on Sunday afternoons and evenings, and a solid number of these going to/from/through the London area will impact on TfL rail services.
Other reasons for heavy sunday traffic are increase of Sunday as a shopping day or day to visit family and
Sports and other large events.
Replacing tube services with buses deters people from making leisure trips, and gives longer journey times for those who have to travel, For example the journey across London by tube from mine to my parents is about 90 minutes (quicker if I use National Rail at this end), but according to tfl's journey planner it's 6 hours by bus (although I'd suggest that's an overestimate) . Also cyclists can't use the buses, and i'd imagine some MIPs struggle more with buses than trains.
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Post by ajamieson on Apr 26, 2009 19:48:56 GMT
Yet the main line service seemed able to cope. You should have seen the state of the platforms at Liverpool St on the early morning of the day in question: rammed! Sunday services are a particular bugbear of mine. In a world-league city economy, millions of people need to get to work on a Saturday or a Sunday. Some of us work both  yet the Sunday timetable is often planned with a less frequent service or with a later start time. The result is the crowds I see on the platform at Mile End at 7am on a Sunday are far worse than I see at 8am on a weekday. Sunday is the only day of the week I can never get a seat on my little commute. Obviously this will not be the case at places like Epping or Uxbridge but planners at TfL are not doing a particularly good job of keeping up with trends in demand as far as I can see. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 26, 2009 19:51:48 GMT
I trust you've not tried traveling outwith London on a Sunday then - I think the earliest I can get into town in Doncaster is 11am!
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Post by Chris M on Apr 26, 2009 23:44:17 GMT
I've been at a gig in Bristol tonight. The last southbound public transport to places like Weston-super-Mare and Yatton left at about 10:20 - 10:30. The last services that connected[1] with the bus to Cheddar left Bristol about 5pm.
[1] I use this word loosely, in the sense that both the service from Bristol and the service to Cheddar serve bus stops in central Weston-super-Mare, although not at very similar times or stops. Although the bus to Cheddar does now serve Weston railway station (an improvement on a few years ago, when the interchange involved crossing a supermarket car park), the timings only vaguely coincide a few times a day).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 20:23:39 GMT
First NXEC northbound departure from KX is at 0900. Presuming it isn't cancelled due to engineering work.
First FCC northbound departure to Peterborough at present is 0822. Due to engineering work.
First local bus leaves my area at around 0930.
10 miles down the road, Sawtry has 3 buses on a Sunday.
Transport in London IS world class. Transport outside London is very hit & miss.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2009 4:54:03 GMT
Yes, Sunday trains are necessary. It's the Sunday timetable which isn't. The whole idea of starting services about 1-2 hours later than those on a Monday-Saturday is obsolete in my opinion. More people work on Sundays today than they probably did 20-25 years ago (probably being the word).
You could argue the toss that Night Bus services are vastly improved and can easily take the strain of Sunday passengers at 0530 in the morning which I believe they can as I travel on the N15 from Barking regularly on a Sunday morning at 0450. However, what proportion of those passengers (of the 45 or so on that bus) need not be on that bus if the tube were running at 0515 on a Sunday morning?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on May 22, 2009 5:22:07 GMT
Welcome to the forum! IMHO the whole question of services on the weekend is a complex one these days. I'm sure engineers don't want time taken away from their hours, but then again London is now a 24 hour city. Perhaps in a few years early Sunday services will be viable, and then perhaps in a decade or so all night running on selected lines for Friday or Sturday night might come into play. The status quo is built up from a collection of various reasons; but it should be the duty of management to be able to question these as and when the time is right.
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yet the Sunday timetable is often planned with a less frequent service or with a later start time. The result is the crowds I see on the platform at Mile End at 7am on a Sunday are far worse than I see at 8am on a weekday. Sunday is the only day of the week I can never get a seat on my little commute.
