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Post by Dmitri on Apr 15, 2009 12:22:51 GMT
Things get more complicated if you are passing through intermediate barriers, arriving at Waterloo on teh W&C and interchanging to a different LU line, interchanging between tram and tube or national rail at Wimbledon, interchangin between Overground and Underground at Euston or making an outerchange. I don't have time (before I fall asleep) to write these out. I'm really glad I do not have to deal with all that . I tell them to wait until the person in front has gone through and the gates FULLY close before slapping the card on the reader Are there any signals on the gates? In Moscow, you can safely touch in after the light on the gate changes from green to red.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 15:18:31 GMT
There is and this does work. It doesn't solve the interchange problems that exist at the moment, though.
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 15, 2009 15:32:02 GMT
Additionally the vast majority - if not virtually every - member of staff has never used PAYG. Thus unless they travel through a station won't be aware of the issues faced at certain interchange stations. The fairly unique gateline arrangement at Stratford is one example. It has always been said that staff and managers are the least likely to have a understand ticketing systems from the users point of view, since they get free travel and don't have to contend with PAYG, closed ticket offices, defective machines etc. If you "must" do something a particular way then it needs to be documented. You cannot charge people extra because of rules which you do not let them see. What's the point in those? What was wrong with an attendant opening a manual gate?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 15:47:11 GMT
What's the point in those? What was wrong with an attendant opening a manual gate? W.A.G's are being introduced to replace the need to have a gate that can be opened by a member of staff. The W.A.G. are being introduced as a part of the step free access program www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/7721.aspx although why they're being installed at non-step free stations ? Maybe because they don't need the member of staff to operate them Funny how Oyster doesn't need a member of staff to assist Oh and wait until the proposed minimum £5 top up at booking offices is introduced. Designed to make your journey even "easier"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 17:18:22 GMT
I suppose the minimum top up of a fiver at windows is to save the poor clerk from having to deal with a customer who dumps a shed load of 5p coins on the counter as the machines no longer accept them. I can't see how implementing this will make the journey easier. It might help if the MFM's accepted more than 12 coins in the hopper or whatever the machine holds before saying you've used too many coins. I'm sure we could go on for hours about possible improvements to Oyster...
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Post by Chris M on Apr 15, 2009 17:24:17 GMT
Say you come from Hayes Kent, and get off at London Bridge. Do you touch out on the readers on platform 5/6 AND those at the bottom of the subway, then go through to the Jub? What about going on FCC to St Pancy - on the same journey - the same issue presents iself. When I travelled from Farringdon to Stratford using Thameslink to London Bridge, I got to the gates at the subway and they wouldn't let me out. The member of staff their explained that I had to go all the way back to platform level, touch my card on a reader I hadn't spotted, and then go back down to the subway to be let out. He couldn't explain why this was necessary though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 17:49:24 GMT
When I travelled from Farringdon to Stratford using Thameslink to London Bridge, I got to the gates at the subway and they wouldn't let me out. The member of staff their explained that I had to go all the way back to platform level, touch my card on a reader I hadn't spotted, and then go back down to the subway to be let out. He couldn't explain why this was necessary though. Which subway? You mean "across the road" from the Tube station? Thats the point entirely... when I am with friends, the ones I have persuaded to use Oyster, I tell them to wait until the person in front has gone through and the gates FULLY close before slapping the card on the reader. It's far too complicated... I've discovered another potential problem exists when the TOC's start using it... Say you come from Hayes Kent, and get off at London Bridge. Do you touch out on the readers on platform 5/6 AND those at the bottom of the subway, then go through to the Jub? What about going on FCC to St Pancy - on the same journey - the same issue presents iself. This is why Im not looking forward to Oyster on the NR network. I believe that the TOC should be entering testing phase shortly to address issues. FCC are already running trial runs with the machines tho Ive not actually seen anyone do it. Is it going to be a case of touching your Oyster at every reader you see on your jounery to update the system? Seems to be one soluation that 'may' work. The other is pre-load your ticket, ie say which route before you travel, after all current tickets have this limit. Futher in the future prehaps using RFID chips in Oyster and having the train touch you in/out like the supermarkets want to do allowing a trolley load of shopping to be scanned still in the trolley. Would seem to be one way with the trans validating your Oyster en route allowing the customers fare to be cheap as the rules allow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 17:51:59 GMT
Come down the ramps off plats 1-6, turn left to main NR gates or could be those under the arches at the bottom of the escys leading to the jubbly.
All very weird problem you had there, ChrisM.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 18:01:27 GMT
Those Oyster readers state touch in/out for the start/finish of your jounery nothing atbout an intermediate touch in point on them.
Bizzare tho.
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Post by Chris M on Apr 15, 2009 19:59:37 GMT
When I travelled from Farringdon to Stratford using Thameslink to London Bridge, I got to the gates at the subway and they wouldn't let me out. The member of staff their explained that I had to go all the way back to platform level, touch my card on a reader I hadn't spotted, and then go back down to the subway to be let out. He couldn't explain why this was necessary though. Which subway? You mean "across the road" from the Tube station? I do indeed, yes. iirc it's two levels below the mainline platforms.
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 15, 2009 21:05:09 GMT
What's the point in those? What was wrong with an attendant opening a manual gate? W.A.G's are being introduced to replace the need to have a gate that can be opened by a member of staff. The W.A.G. are being introduced as a part of the step free access program www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/7721.aspx although why they're being installed at non-step free stations ? Maybe because they don't need the member of staff to operate them This removes the requirement to have an attendant on the gate line presumably. Which is no good if your ticket/Oyster won't work, and nobody is about... what do you do then? Ring the helpline ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 22:53:30 GMT
When I travelled from Farringdon to Stratford using Thameslink to London Bridge, I got to the gates at the subway and they wouldn't let me out. The member of staff their explained that I had to go all the way back to platform level, touch my card on a reader I hadn't spotted, and then go back down to the subway to be let out. He couldn't explain why this was necessary though. I had exactly the same problem the one time I went to London Bridge, there is nothing to explain it and it is totally unintuitive. It seems for whatever reason the gateline only accepts Oyster loaded with a Travelcard. Really annoying having to go all the way back up, touch, all the way back down, and then have to ask someone to let you out.
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Post by johnb on Apr 16, 2009 16:10:05 GMT
@tomcakes: all gatelines are (must legally be) monitored by a member of staff, so you should be safe.
@someone/Chris M: the reason PAYG works in such a weird fashion in London Bridge is annoying but understandable: it's only valid for the tiny proportion of people who use Thameslink to get to LB from the north. If it worked more generally, then the number of people getting £6 penalties and utter confusion would tend towards 'large'.
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 16, 2009 16:46:01 GMT
Hmm - at a station, albeit a quiet one, recently the only way of getting assistance was to pull a help point to summon an attendant - there was nobody standing about.
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Post by Chris M on Apr 16, 2009 16:56:35 GMT
I believe that gatelines can be monitored remotely (i.e. over cctv). It was common for there to be no visible staff member at Debden station after the evening rush hour.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 27, 2009 20:59:59 GMT
It's all very confusing, but I am finding that more often when I am charged too much for a journey (or a maximum cash fare), the system is automatically refunding it a few days later. This was once rarely the case.
The biggest problem that I have faced is that at some stations, you touch out and if you then touch in again at the same station within 20 mins, the system counts it as an interchange, and the continuaiton of your original journey. However, the journey time does not go back to zero.
For example, if I touch in at Newbury Park at 10.00am, and touch out at Waterloo at 10.45am, that'a a 45 min journey, all well and good so far. If I then touch back in at Waterloo at 11.00am, and touch out at say King's Cross at 11.20am, then touch back in at King's Cross at 11.40am, the system is still counting my journey from Newbury Park at 10am. Eventually, you can easily go over 2 hours. With it now being two and a half hours, it's less likely, but still an issue if you don't take the quickest route.
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Post by mcmaddog on May 8, 2009 7:46:54 GMT
I have a route with similar symptoms to the OP. 1 Touch in at Moorgate at 1730 2 Touch out at a validator at Finsbury Park at 1800 3 Touch in at a validator at Finsbury Park at 1945 4 Touch out at Bermondsey at 2030 Oyster charges the following: 1 Moogate - Finsbury Park £0.00 2 Finsbury Park - Bermondsey £2.20 3 Finsbury Park - Bermondsey £4.00 (Touch in at exit barrier) Oyster Helpline agrees there's a fault but still no-one has rectified this, everytime I get to Bermondsey the poor staff have to refund me - I know them by name now!!! Amazingly enough it works! Either the Oyster helpline sorted it or someone has been scanning this board - anyway, when I touched in at Finsbury Park last night an 1 & 3/4 hours after touching out it said Enter rather than Exit for the first time ever and lo and behold the correct fare deducted!
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Post by flippyff on May 9, 2009 22:34:09 GMT
Prompted by reading this thread, I've just checked my journey history for this week as I got a 'Seek assistance' at Paddington on Thursday morning. Lo and behold, not once has it registered an exit at Paddington for any of my four E&C-Paddington journeys this week. I'll ring the Oyster helpline in the morning but are there problems with the gates at Paddington?
EDIT: After spending half an hour with Excel I realised that my online journey history is correctly costed but just displayed rather wierdly, as above it hasn't displayed any entries or exits at Paddington but has charged the correct fare and some bus journey fares are shown as a £1 credit rather than a £1 debit but still with £1 being deducted from the total balance. And they still haven't got the 'Price cap' column working again.
TIA
Simon
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2009 13:01:56 GMT
I have had so many problems using a PAYG Oyster on the underground and overground that I have given up and now use it only for bus travel, otherwise I stick to the far more reliable and easy to use paper ODTC. If many of us enthusiasts find it all very confusing then I dread to think how confusing visitors to London must find it all.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 12:26:27 GMT
I have had so many problems using a PAYG Oyster on the underground and overground that I have given up and now use it only for bus travel, otherwise I stick to the far more reliable and easy to use paper ODTC. If many of us enthusiasts find it all very confusing then I dread to think how confusing visitors to London must find it all. They won't find it confusing at all.. but they don't look at every single detail and whether they might be overcharged or not the way people here do.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 16:55:14 GMT
For all the problems posted on threads like these, there are thousands of journeys made without incident. I check my statement every month and in all my time of using Oyster, pretty much all over Greater London on all forms of transport, I have only ever had two problems. Once it did not register an exit, and another time it somehow ignored some journeys completely, undercharging me as a result.
While I am not an enthusiast, I am an heavy user of public transport and have more understanding of it than the average commuter. But personally I do not find the system complicated at all. The only time I have been confused is with exiting London Bridge station using PAYG on Thameslink services. And that is not a fault of Oyster as a system but the stupid way the station is operated. If the just put a PAYG validator by the exit gates with a poster explaining what to do it would make a huge difference instead of sending people back up the stairs to the platform to touch out.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 19:08:44 GMT
I have had so many problems using a PAYG Oyster on the underground and overground that I have given up and now use it only for bus travel, otherwise I stick to the far more reliable and easy to use paper ODTC. If many of us enthusiasts find it all very confusing then I dread to think how confusing visitors to London must find it all. Amen to that. I'm almost at that same point as well. Every time I use the darned thing for any sort of PAYG journey, I live in fear of the system not logging it correctly and me getting a £20 fine - which has actually happend to me.
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