Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 30, 2020 18:32:26 GMT
more then likely to get rid of the slips Spot on - plus renewing a few other ends of points. We are however moving off the subject of the resignalling of the Subsurface lines, despite the District line heritage of the Hounslow branch.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 30, 2020 15:49:12 GMT
Everything not converted to Surelocks at the west side of Acton Town, the east side of Acton Town is due for renewal next Christmas. No, it's not. Christmas 2021 is planned for a remodelling at Northfields. I was on a site visit for it last night.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 29, 2020 8:24:46 GMT
Sorry to be so specific but may I ask what the renewals will be at Acton please during these closures? Points renewals one would assume from the previous comments - 40AB on the WB roads maybe? I was wondering about 71 72 73 on EB, as there is a full closure of Ealing Common Depot east access 2 November-5 December 2020. 71 AB, 72, 73 AB, 75 AB, 76, 77, 47 AB are the points due to be renewed this Christmas. Is Acton Town work still part of the SSR upgrade 10 years after the first S stock trains arrived? I know the depot upgrade is part of that. Or is it the start of works for the Picc line upgrade? Acton Town (and anything beyond Barons Court) is now descoped from 4LM, with the exception of any outstanding depot works. The future of the Piccadilly Line Upgrade is currently unclear, other than enabling works for the new trains.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 28, 2020 22:22:03 GMT
There was still a plan last year to convert Edgware Road to Electric points this year. As you can see, nothing has come of it. I think the 'high speed points' is a bit of a misnomer, the site constraints have always meant the track designers are essentially limited in what they can provide and the switch lengths weren't going to be massively different, just in flat bottom rather than bullhead, and with Electric point machines rather than pneumatic.
With regard to @aetearlscourt's comment; Acton Town is just this Christmas and one closure immediately after New Year's Day - Christmas 2021 is planned for another job.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 26, 2020 20:45:04 GMT
Im sure maybe the wall that fell is also get some attention None planned. It's a possession for Thales who were particularly concerned that any attempts to deal with the wall might have an adverse effect on the signalling system, they asked that no work is done that could affect the successful testing at Barking and East Ham (including the final testing out from Barking signal cabin).
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 26, 2020 20:34:01 GMT
class411 - you've made your point. If this continues to descend into a 'but you said' routine this thread will be locked.
Please, everyone - read and think before you post.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 21, 2020 21:19:27 GMT
The first 1983 tube stock did underscoring on the Bakerloo to check the gauge. This was to ensure clearances for the diversionary route to Elephant and Castle. I don't recall whether the train went to Queens Park though. I've certainly seen a photo of them in J. Graeme Bruce's 1988 book in Queens Park south shed (next to 1959 stock) and I'm 99% sure I've seen others showing them in Queen's Park Platforms. After some quick googling I managed to find these, which suggest they got as far as Stonebridge Park:
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 20, 2020 21:37:07 GMT
Could the 1973 stock when replaced on the Piccadilly line be used on the Bakerloo line ? Doubtful because the cars are longer. It's not beyond the realms of possibility. Empty trains of 1983 stock certainly ran on the Bakerloo for testing purposes in the 1980s, and they were formed of six 'long' cars similar to the 1973 stock. I'm sure one of our resident rolling stock experts such as t697 or 100andthirty would have a better idea.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 15, 2020 11:48:27 GMT
I think greatcentral is referring to Chiltern ATP (SelCab) which was originally provided between Marylebone and Princes Risborough and now extended to Aynho Junction. Interestingly there is a current application from Chiltern for an exemption from Reg 3 of the Railway Safety Regulations 1999 (which require an ATP system) on the ORR Site.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 15, 2020 11:32:58 GMT
Is the Chiltern fleet not fitted with TPWS then?
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 14, 2020 21:18:50 GMT
Even GoA 3 is difficult depending on how it is implemented - DLR is a GoA3 system, and I'm not sure I'd want to have a Train Captain fighting their way through a packed eight car train in an emergency.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 14, 2020 18:34:54 GMT
Nice theory but what about Marylebone?
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 13, 2020 16:39:23 GMT
Got it - Metropolitan line, between Croxley and Moor Park, bridge carrying access road to Croxleyhall substation.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 13, 2020 16:31:29 GMT
It's not there. Though the image looks familiar I'm not sure where it is.
I can make a few educated reasons for discounting certain locations: There is no TBTC loop, so it isn't on the Jubilee or Northern Lines. The appearance of the cables in the existing run are not the same type as used on the Central line. The unused section of cable run suggests it's somewhere on the sub-surface lines.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 13, 2020 15:06:19 GMT
Paris Line 1, I would suggest.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 12, 2020 22:53:07 GMT
All they have to do is say: "Yes, we are committed to driver-less trains. In fact we are making good progress as we already have the majority of our lines using trains and signalling that allows the train to move from place to place under computer guidance." I can't really see how this can be used as a stick to beat anyone. In fact it would likely rebound as tfl could quite honestly point out that progress towards this goal has been severely slowed by the removal of central government funding. The problem is that the detailed explanation doesn't generally interest voters. They see the media demonising tube drivers and the Prime Minister promising driverless trains, and they like what they're being promised. Who wouldn't, in the environment where 'striking tube drivers' have stopped you getting to work on time/at all? The facts (such as the fact that the infrastructure isn't ready, or the trains are only being built with provision for subsequent conversion to unattended train operation) are not relevant; what is of importance politically is that the PM has promisted driverless trains. In a year's time, one party will seek to remind people of his promise for driverless trains, together with the fact that the current mayor from the opposite party has not delivered on the PM's promise - regardless of whether or not it was ever in the Mayor's mandate to do so or if it was achievable in the timescale.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 11, 2020 23:06:32 GMT
Mod note: This thread is about driverless trains, not about any of the Prime Minister's other attributes. Posts naming individuals or other observations about the personalities of the politicians involved may be considered in breach of Rule 3 and are liable to be moderated and/or removed.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 11, 2020 20:54:22 GMT
The real reason is to rub the current Mayor’s face well and truly in it, especially with mayoral elections coming up. Sticking a spanner in the union works is a spin-off benefit, but I don’t think that’s the primary motivation. It’s all rather depressing. Sadly, I think you're right. The line to be taken will be "He's bankrupted TfL and can't deliver driverless trains, my candidate can!" despite the face that his candidate can't either, in the current financial climate. It reminds me very much of a former Mayor's promise to break the unions and get a no-strike clause in contracts of employment, but his only success in that regard was to get all four LU unions to take part in joint strike action which hadn't happened since 1922.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 11, 2020 20:48:12 GMT
Absolutely. London Overground stock is no longer fitted with tripcocks - both the Watford DC lines and North London Line sections which are used by LU and LO stock have TPWS fitted as well as trainstops. The trainstops are now requuired only for LU trains.
That said, it would have made sense to provide TPWS on the Met (the signal overlaps are individually calculated and therefore the usual constraint on TPWS being ineffective at stopping a train above 75mph is a moot point), plus the TPWS system is designed and supplied by Thales (albeit a different arm of Thales).
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 11, 2020 20:39:59 GMT
It seems that speed limit reductions for bike lanes are done as a knee-jerk reaction as if it is *the* one and only idea that will offer cyclists perfect safety Ask anyone remotely connected with ensuring safety in systems and they will tell you there is no such thing as perfect or complete safety. It is all about reducing the risk (likelihood x severity) to an acceptable level, but it can never be eliminated. These aren't just for one group of people, i.e. cyclists. They are also designed to benefit pedestrians as well. There is a 20% chance of fatality for pedestrians involved in a road traffic accident when they are hit at 30mph, compared to 2.5% at 20mph. And if you're going to complain about recent changes on the Euston Road, may I suggest you take a drive in the London Broroughs of Camden, Hammersmith and Fulham, or Ealing was well? They all have large sections where the speed limit is 20mph. My experience is that many buses in London struggle to attain and rarely exceed 20mph regardless of traffic conditions. Whereas most vehicles have a 0-60mph characteristic, for many London Buses it seems that 0-20mph is more appropriate. None of this has been changed by adding some cycle lanes. Anyway, back on topic...
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 7, 2020 19:38:13 GMT
Make sure you write everything in pencil though. It helps if you have one of those with a built-in eraser. From the rmt website Proposed 4LM migration dates SMA 3 Operational Proving – 9 th / 10th January 2021 SMA 3 – 6 th / 7th March 2021 SMA 4 – 8 th / 9 th May 2021 SMA 5 – 18th / 19th July 2021 SMA 6 – September 2021 SMA 7 – January 2022 SMA 8 – May 2022 SMA 9 – August 2022 At least one of those dates has already moved - like I said, it helps if the pencil has an eraser on the end. Nothing planned past SMA7 its all been descoped SMA8 going onwards If so, nobody has told the project team or the contractor...
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 4, 2020 21:26:42 GMT
Is the closure on the Eastern District this weekend related to 4LM? It seems to be shut every weekend at the moment. It wouldn't be 4LM testing since it doesn't wholly cover any of the migration areas concerned. Crossrail works at Whitechapel have been the most frequent reason over the past few years given the notoriously tight clearances at that site. There's no 4LM testing taking place at the moment due to Covid - some of the staff involved are furloughed and there is a whole package of (previously unplanned) works to ensure social distancing during testing, such as providing additional monitoring equipment and partitions in cabs, which are needed before testing can restart. This weekend's closure, as goldenarrow correctly suggests, is due to Crossrail works.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 4, 2020 21:24:08 GMT
With the Covid-19 restrictions and delay, July won't be happening. I would unwrap your 2021 diary and have that ready for SMA 3. Make sure you write everything in pencil though. It helps if you have one of those with a built-in eraser.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jul 1, 2020 16:44:59 GMT
Don't think anything at PG was changed except they can no longer use 29 road behind the WB platform as it too short for a S stock, but the signalling remains commissioned. I was the Tester in Charge for Parsons Green. S7 Enabling works included: - Provision of FRLs on 21 and 22 sidings
- Removal of Train Ready To Start plungers on 21-24, 25 and 27 roads.
- WF26 and WF33 repositioned
- Stopping position adjustments on 27 road
- Provision and then subsequent removal of Limit of Shunt beyond WF38.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2020 16:54:11 GMT
(I'm not actually sue what de-scoped means.) To de-scope is to remove something from the sphere or area over which an activity operates or is effective. The biggest change on the railway to accommodate S stock was actually all of the depots and sidings. Every single one of them had to be modified to fit them in! I'm not quite so sure that every one was modified. Taking a case in point, at Parsons Green there was no work to No. 28 siding and very limited alterations to Nos. 21, 22 and 23, all of which could take an S7 beforehand. Possibly Royal Oak involved a physical extension to the east, I'd need to look it up... Royal Oak was indeed extended at the east end, and the starting signal A127 was relocated in consequence. <<posts merged: superteacher>>
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2020 16:41:02 GMT
Without wishing to open up the whole Moorgate thing, wasn't the Guard on the train "collecting papers" at the time? Yes, to quote from the accident report: " ...he admitted that he had left his position at the leading end of the last car shortly after the train left Old Street and that he had gone into the rear driving cab to look for a newspaper. As he returned, he paused near the leading double door bay and was reading the advertisements when he was suddenly aware that the train was entering Moorgate station..."
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jun 29, 2020 18:31:55 GMT
Don't forget, for most of their life the District line R stock guard had to use two keys, one for the position, and one to open or close the doors, moving it from side to side for each platform as appropriate! Both the size of spanners. That's actually an interesting idea - almost like an early form of Correct Side Door Enable where the guard had to physically take the key to open the doors, thus acting as more of a reminder to check they were on the right side of the train before doing so.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jun 29, 2020 18:16:13 GMT
I keep seeing it mentioned that they may cut back how much of the SSR network ends up being converted to CBTC. Does it have any truth to it? Yes, and you will find the answers and discussion on page 33: districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/492750
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jun 29, 2020 18:14:56 GMT
Yes, and a different style lock on the other side of the T to open the conductor's lockers on crew operated buses.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,104
|
Post by Tom on Jun 29, 2020 10:14:42 GMT
The signalling for White City used to show the extra pair of tracks many years after they were lifted. They even appeared on the new scale plan when White City was resignalled, years after they had been removed! erm, was there not an asset inventory before drawing up plans before such projects? Do you keep records of when your neighbour mows their lawn? In the same vein, why should LU keep records of assets which aren't theirs? I just looked and they are still shown on the scale plan even today, which is odd as I'm sure I asked for it to be taken off when we did Points and Crossings work in the area back in 2010 (I checked that design). The extra tracks don't appear on the East Acton plan, or indeed any of the other plans.
|
|