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Post by thc on Sept 7, 2006 21:08:53 GMT
It won't be - it's just been refurbished by the owners and will be there for a good while yet. Any chance of a comment or two on the original subject instead? THC
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Post by thc on Sept 7, 2006 14:05:04 GMT
I note from the TfL 2010 map the change to the name of Shepherd's Bush H&C station to Shepherd's Bush Market, which IMO is a very sensible development to reflect the distinct nature of the surrounding area and also the separateness from the Central/"London Overground" (still feels weird saying that!) station at the other end of Shepherd's Bush Green.
On the other hand, it seems that by calling the new H&C line station "Wood Lane", TfL/LU are missing a trick. In an age where connectivity is apparently all I can't help but feel that this passes up a great chance to publicly embed a new H&C/Central line interchange by referring to the new station as "White City", even if the connection 'twixt the two stations is on-street as in the case of Hammersmith (which itself surely suggests that the approach to the new station's name is inconsistent with current practice).
Any thoughts?
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 16, 2008 13:30:36 GMT
It was indeed removed for Broadgate.
When I was a boy (late 1970s/early 1980s) I remember my father - a now-retired Met driver based at Rickmansworth - taking me in the cab with him (no names, no pack drill) from Chesham to Liverpool Street. I think it was only the peak-time Cheshams that started from/ran to the bay at Liverpool Street but I could be wrong.
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 5, 2008 17:43:15 GMT
It's hardly surprising - I first came across the project when living locally back in 1979 and am still waiting for the first Met to reach Watford Junction nearly 30 years later! Maybe it'll happen in my lifetime.
Maybe...
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 4, 2008 19:37:37 GMT
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Post by thc on Feb 4, 2008 18:52:27 GMT
On the section you mention there will only be a replacement for Watford Met (I hope the powers that be come up with a better name for it than Ascot Road) and a reopened Watford West. The Watford Stadium station will not reopen so you're left with just two, or three extra stations in total if you include WHS and WJ.
With the promise of an extended Bakerloo to WJ it should make the top left corner of the map more "interesting", that's for sure.
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 4, 2008 17:57:56 GMT
In case anyone is interested, here's the latest update on the Croxley Rail Link project courtesy of the Watford Observer and John Burke of the Watford Rail Group.
THC
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Rail link a step closer
A £95million upgrade of Watford's rail system edged closer to approval this week, with the submission of the business case for the Croxley Rail Link.
The Department of Transport (DfT) now has 26 weeks to look at the application which, if agreed, could see a link between the Metropolitan Line and Watford Junction running by 2013.
The scheme would include two new stations, one in Ascot Road and one serving the proposed Watford Health Campus and Vicarage Road stadium. Watford MP Claire Ward, Mayor of Watford, Dorothy Thornhill, and Leader of Hertfordshire County Council Robert Gordon all voiced their support for the project this week in a joint letter to the Secretary of State for Transport, Ruth Kelly.
Mayor Thornhill said the project was vital to the growth of the town, adding: "Watford needs a decision which will make a dramatic and positive impact on the lives of its residents and those who work or travel through the town.
"The benefits of the Croxley Rail Link are clear and deliverable within a short time frame. The town and its people have waited a long time for progress."
The project is estimated to cut down on 300,000 car trips and be used a million times a year.
Ms Ward said she had supported the scheme for many years and has had regular meetings about it with Mayor of London Ken Livingstone and transport ministers.
She said: "Now is a golden opportunity for this public transport scheme to be put in place and we are desperate for the authorities to support it.
"People have been waiting 20 or 30 years for this and now is the best time ever to make a case for the Croxley Rail Link."
Transport for London has already agreed to contribute around £17.5million towards the project. Subject to approval, a public consultation will start in September.
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Post by thc on Oct 25, 2007 17:52:46 GMT
This scheme update (presumably issued by HCC) was posted on uk.railway at the weekend by John Burke of the Watford Rail Users Group. Dates given for construction and opening should be taken with a huge dose of salt given that I first heard of this scheme in 1979!
THC
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Croxley Rail Link - Position Update October 2007
The Croxley Rail Link continues to be progressed by Hertfordshire County Council and remains one of the Council's identified Major Schemes within the Local Transport Plan 2006/7-2010/11, for which it is seeking grant funding from DfT.
It is very unusual for a County Council to act as a lead partner promoting such a railway scheme. We are leading because of the continuing changes of fortunes and structures within the rail industry and TFL. This produces the double challenge of leading a project in an arena for which we do not have the primary responsibility and in an arena which is subject to continuous change.
The project was identified as a Priority 1A scheme within the Regional Transport Priorities and has been included within the Regional Funding Allocation programme for funding in the period 2009/10 to 2015/16.
Whilst this overall funding time frame appears lengthy, placing the delivery of Croxley Rail Link within it is realistic, given that the scheme still has to be taken through a Transport & Works Act (TWA) process to secure the powers to construct.
HCC are currently working with consultants toward production of 'Major Scheme Business Case' for submission to the Department of Transport to seek 'Programme Entry' status for the project. This is effectively an updated resubmission of previous bids, taking account of some specific queries DfT have raised regarding cost updates and clarification of risk allowances, in line with their recently revised guidance for bids of this nature.
Through previous bid submissions to DfT and through negotiations with London Underground (LU) it has been previously established that:
The scheme meets all the necessary economic criteria of DfT and TfL has approved the economic appraisal for the scheme. The Mayor of London has demonstrated support for the scheme and has publicly committed a funding contribution to the project of some £17m. TfL is prepared to formally enter a promotion agreement with Hertfordshire County Council to co-promote the Transport & Works Application
Programme Entry (PE) status at this stage is required to reduce risk in the proposed delivery timetable. To achieve an opening date within the Regional Transport Priority funding window, the project needs to be granted PE as soon as possible by DfT as PE provides the trigger for the TWA process - HCC cannot advance a TWA process without an 'intention to fund' decision from DfT.
Following recent discussions, DfT have sought to revisit some core assumptions around the project, and clarification of their requirements has led to some delay in the bid preparation, but HCC anticipate making a submission to DfT before the end of the calendar year. Under their new guidance, DfT have indicated that a decision on the granting of PE status will be forthcoming within 26 weeks.
A possible timetable for the Project from that point forward is as follows:
Summer 2008 Programme Entry Granted TWA Application Summer 2009 TWA Inquiry Autumn 2009 SoS Decision Summer 2010 Start On Site Summer 2012 Scheme Opening Summer 2014
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Post by thc on Mar 30, 2007 8:22:17 GMT
There is now an online petition to find funding for the building the Croxley Rail Link. Please take the time to sign the petition if you are in favour. Thanks in advance. THC petitions.pm.gov.uk/Croxleylink/
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Post by thc on Aug 3, 2006 21:05:40 GMT
Here cometh the bright spark - you forgot the (old) county of London, in existence from 1889 to 1965. Plus, with the East London section of the Metropolitan line, you could throw Kent (well pre-1965!) into the mix as well. Jamie - there's plenty of literature out there explaining the reasons for the Met's incursion into the Home Counties. Go fill your boots. THC
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Post by thc on Jul 25, 2006 21:40:23 GMT
I think Chiltern – acknowledged as one of the best suppliers of rail services – deserves a City terminus in addition to Marylebone. This will be achieved by connecting with the Midland Mainline at West Hampstead as part of the proposed rebuild/interchange, or if that proves too difficult by a burrowing double connection to the Acton-Cricklewood (Dudding Hill) line at Neasdon. Have you not seen Network Rail's Cross-London RUS? It makes absolutely no mention of passenger services over Acton-Dudding Hill; in fact, no mention of even upgrading for freight. And this from NR's most strategic document, which looks ahead to 2020. BAA floated the idea of using this line for Heathrow stoppers to St Pancras back in the 1990s but that went precisely nowhere even though they seemed to be prepared to throw lots of private money at it. Sorry but in conclusion I see absolutely no chance of your idea happening. I think that its is far more likely that Chiltern will withdraw from the Met altogether, they lose money on the Amersham run, Aylesbury Parkway station is being built to the north of the town to serve the Prescott Houses being built there and the intention is to have an east west rail link to Oxford, Winslow, MK, and Cambridge, this would then allow the Met to take over the Amersham Aylesbury line and leave Chiltern with the more profitable High Wycombe line. At the risk of mixing my metaphors: sorry to pee on your chips but there's way too much pie-in-the-sky here. You and I will both be a long time dead before the Met ever again reaches Aylesbury as there's no way Chiltern will/can give up that route (it's in the Chiltern Passenger Service Requirement). Despite several evaluations in recent years of reinstatement of the rail link between Oxford and Cambridge no case for rebuilding has yet been proven; yet another (although more limited) feasibility study is now underway. The best that EastWest Rail (the consortium of local authorities and other interested stakeholders) is currently hoping for is reinstatement of Oxford to Bedford, and this with extra Infrastructure Growth Fund money (the same money that's being used for AVP) for the MK/South Midlands Growth Area skewing investment away from other strategic and medium-sized public transport projects (apart from guided busways in Cambridgeshire - go figure... ) Apologies once again for spoiling the fun but when the powers-that-be can't even get a simple project like the Croxley Link right (fifty-odd years and counting) then there's no chance of the proposals being mentioned here ever seeing the light of day. THC
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Post by thc on Apr 9, 2006 14:31:14 GMT
Nothing to do with intellect, everything to do with developing an 'instinct'... The point made is valid. Education can never produce a railwayman on its own without other factors Of course not, but whilst there is obviously no substitute for gaining experience one would expect those with the right skills to assimilate the necessary operational, interpersonal and safety lessons more quickly. This seems to suggest that TfL/LU's graduate recruitment practices and management training programmes need some refining. THC
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Post by thc on Apr 9, 2006 11:13:24 GMT
"Hoards" (sic) of graduates? You make it sound as if acquiring an education is a bad thing. (What is it about the English that makes them so suspicious of intellect?) Who's to say that the "hoards" can't quickly pick up the skills necessary to become a "real railwayman"? Or do you only count as a "real" railwayman if you've worked your way up from fireman/shunter/station assistant and around the hordes of (undeserving by implication) graduates? Hmmm... THC
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Post by thc on Apr 2, 2006 16:32:59 GMT
make them clean off their handiwork however long it takes them ... Once they've spent a whole night (sic) cleaning off an hour's work they will certainly think twice next time..... Exactly the kind of punishment that's required although I'd increase it somewhat in magnitude. Substitute "month" or "year" for "night" and we have a deal. THC
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Post by thc on Apr 2, 2006 11:59:40 GMT
Sorry, should have made clear I was writing the above with only a little irony. That said, I'd still like to see much more severe penalties for graffiti "artists" than those currently applied, especially to those at the mindless vandalism end of the scale such as the ubiquitous Tox and "Elament" (this particular idiot's trick is to acid-stencil his tag on 'C' stock windows and doors). THC
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Post by thc on Apr 2, 2006 9:24:02 GMT
Trouble is that graffiti makes the whole area look rubbish all the time, so it has a disproportionate effect. It just adds to the sense of a place being hopeless and lawless even if in most respects it isn't so bad. It's known as the "broken window effect" where one minor (but visible) crime/offence quickly leads to other more serious offences. Personally I'd introduce Sharia law just for the little bastards and have their hands cut off when they are caught. I'd love to see Tox try to tag whilst holding the marker pen with his teeth. THC
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Post by thc on Nov 28, 2006 9:12:28 GMT
for a fairly small sum of money, you are able to: 1)...5) <snip>8 All in all, I can't see why not! And if you need another reason: 6) Opening up the Watford employment zone to rail commuters from NW London (TfL's main reason for contributing) and Buckinghamshire. I think Chiltern has yet to be persuaded but if the case can be made for them serving Watford Junction it would only add to the scheme's VFM. There is also the opportunity for interchange with the canal at Ascot Road. I spent my formative years in an LT house about five minutes' walk from that particular spot (in sight of the current Met crossing of the GUC) which explains my possibly peculiar interest in seeing this project to fruition! THC
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Post by thc on Nov 27, 2006 15:06:00 GMT
It's been a while since anyone's mentioned the Croxley Rail Link so I thought I would bring it up again. I found this in a report on the agenda for the October 2006 meeting of the London Travel Watch Rail & Underground Sub-committee (catchy title, huh?)
It makes for positive reading in what has been a tortuously slow development process. Hopefully there will be some sort of headline announcement soon.
THC
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"Croxley Rail Link is currently being progressed by Hertfordshire County Council and remains one of the Council's identified major schemes within the Local Transport Plan, for which it is seeking grant funding from the Department for Transport (DfT).
Croxley Rail Link was first submitted to the DfT as a major scheme bid for funding from 2001/02. The County Council continues to jointly promote the project in partnership with London Underground (LUL) and Transport for London (TfL).
Through previous bid submissions and through negotiations with LUL it has been established that:
· The scheme meets the economic criteria of the DfT, and TfL has approved the scheme's economic appraisal. · The Mayor of London supports the scheme and it features within the Mayor's Transport Strategy for London · TfL is prepared to formally enter a promotion agreement with Hertfordshire County Council to co-promote the Transport & Works application · LUL has included the scheme as a 'specified right' under the PPP contract with Metronet (the PPP contractor) and it is included within its future plans.
In January 2005 TfL reconfirmed its commitment to the project with a significant financial contribution of some £18m being included within the TfL 5-Year Investment Programme. HCC submitted a revised funding package proposal, including this contribution, to DfT in Spring 2005.
Subsequently, the Government has been seeking the advice of the regions as to their priorities in transport, housing and economic development to enhance regional input to Government policy and assist in the process of identifying Regional Funding Allocations (RFAs). The advice from East of England to Government on RFAs was published at the end of January 2006 and Croxley Rail Link was identified as a 'Priority 1' scheme, starting in 2010/11.
The time frame for the Croxley Rail Link proposed by the RFA is realistic, given that the Transport & Works Act process has yet to be embarked upon. A key trigger for the TWA process is confirmation from DfT that the project has gained "Scheme Entry" status under its new procedures. (This is similar to the DfT's conventional "provisional approval"). Detailed discussions have taken place with DfT with respect to the extent to which risks have been assessed and how they are to be managed, reflecting DfT's new approach to the assessment of major schemes for funding.
Further work is being undertaken, utilising current best practice and contractor's experience on similar schemes, to produce a robust up-to-date cost estimate including quantified values for 'risks', to which TfL/LUL, HCC and DfT can sign up.
As such, Croxley Rail Link is very much a 'live' project with the strong backing of the local authorities, the regional authority and TfL as well as widespread public support."
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Post by thc on Jul 6, 2006 13:55:56 GMT
I've just been in touch with a nice man at TfL Stakeholder Relations who tells me that Hertfordshire County Council (lead promoter of the Croxley Link) expects to lodge a revised funding package for the scheme to the DfT by the end of this month (despite numerous emails to HCC - well, their consultants, Mouchel Parkman - they were incapable of telling me that themselves). So we should expect to hear something back from the mandarins by the next millennium.
I'm not holding my breath in anticipation...
THC
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Post by thc on Mar 18, 2006 22:04:04 GMT
Interesting stuff mrjrt for which many thanks. I've done a lot of searching on the Croxley Link and the subject of dual-level ('S' and tube stock) access at Watford High Street on uk.railway and uk.transport.london and haven't found any mention of it on either newsgroup. If I come across anything I'll post it here.
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 18, 2006 6:27:42 GMT
You're talking in terms of £10s of millions for this work when the CRL overall has recently been priced in the order of £80m. I can't see the extra cost stacking up on what must already be a marginal business case. If it was that clear-cut, surely the CRL would have been built a long time ago. Wouldn't it...?
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 11, 2006 14:44:55 GMT
TfL committed £18m to the Croxley Rail Link through Ken's 5-year investment programme some time ago, so it is the hand-sitting mandarins (great name for a band, no?) at the DfT that are holding up scheme approval...
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 11, 2006 7:20:15 GMT
Re-read the article I posted, Si. It's not the go-ahead just yet - this right is still reserved by the DfT through the LTP (local transport planning) process. And they#re the ones that have been holding this up now for as long as I can remember...
THC
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Post by thc on Feb 10, 2006 17:40:31 GMT
From Watford Observer, Friday, February 10, 2006
Rail link scheme a priority
TWO transport schemes in the Watford area could benefit from £63m of funding if the Government listens to regional recommendations.
The Croxley Rail Link (CRL) and improvements at Watford Junction Station have been identified by the East of England Regional Assembly as priorities, along with 23 other schemes earmarked for £778m of investment over the next ten years.
The assembly considered 135 schemes before choosing priorities.
Subject to Government approval, the CRL, which is expected to cost £66m, will get £50m, £11m in 2008 and £39min 2001. The improvements at Watford Junction are expected to cost £16m and will get £13m in 2011.
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Yet another body declares support for the rail link but there's still no movement from DfT.
THC
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Post by thc on Jan 12, 2006 7:42:40 GMT
It's the WCML and no they couldn't as the DC lines are separated from the AC-only main line and run in a loop from Bushey through Watford High Street round to Watford Junction.
THC
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Post by thc on Jan 10, 2006 8:49:25 GMT
Could HMRI be persuaded to give dispensation in this case? Failing that, what about the concept of differential/alternating platform edge height? It seems to work perfectly well for light rail solutions in the UK (I'm thinking of Manchester in particular with high and low tram doors) and in practical terms would mean different stopping points for S stock and 1972 stock on either Watford High Street platform. So long as the door arrangements don't conflict anywhere along the platform (big ask, I know) then this should not prove too demanding in practice - after all, Tube drivers are among the most skilled anywhere in the world and can stop their trains on the proverbial sixpence, no? Or - and I'm going for the jugular here - what about dedicated platform staff to assist people with mobility and visual impairments on and off trains as they arrive? Surely common sense must prevail and services from both lines be able to call at Watford High Street. After all, the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 enshrines the principle of "reasonable adjustment" as a means of providing access to goods, services and facilities for disabled people - surely the same logic should be applied here? THC
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Post by thc on Jan 9, 2006 21:07:10 GMT
Hello Simon and welcome on board. I think that there will be merit in running either something on the Met from Watford Junction either to Chesham (joining up with the shuttle?) or Chiltern Railways operating from Watford Junction to Aylesbury. Either (and for me anyway more likely the latter) will surely enhance the business case for the Croxley Link that Hertfordshire and TfL are trying to sell to D(a)fT. That's as long as any extra services can be fitted around the four or even six trains an hour that will be run from London to Watford Junction... Seniorplanner - do you perchance have any inside info on this? THC
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Post by thc on Jan 3, 2006 8:34:50 GMT
I hope you don't mind me stepping in instead, q8, but this thread contains the reply I received from Hertfordshire County Council (the CRL project leader) back in September when I enquired as to the scheme's status. districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=met&action=display&thread=1127045445I was expecting to see it mentioned in Hertfordshire's provisional Local Transport Plan settlement for 2006/7-2010/1 which was released in mid-December, but it appears that the DfT mandarins are sitting on their hands hoping that it will all go away. I just hope that seniorplanner has some better news than I! THC
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Post by thc on Nov 20, 2005 19:57:07 GMT
Greetings, delighted to report some LUL Heritage Fleet movements, delighted because they've gone to good homes, not delighted we are now allowed to use them any more swanagetc.fotopic.net/c751885.htmlalong with 2 of the Mk2's at Didcot this makes for good news these days. It does indeed. There's a couple of pictures (one internal showing the stock to be in remarkably good condition) and a small piece in the new issue of Rail magazine which will be out on Wednesday 23/11. THC
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Post by thc on Sept 22, 2005 5:45:02 GMT
p.s. interesting signature - what does it mean??!! It would seem to "mean we are always in the brown stuff, only the depth varies" ;D ;D Got it in one solidbond! ;D THC
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