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Post by nig on Jun 10, 2019 22:27:14 GMT
wonder why arnos grove sidings isn't included in this Lack of space to add more sidings ? Think it's more about making sidings suitable for new stock south Harrow hasn't got space for more sidings either
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Post by nig on Jun 10, 2019 13:27:38 GMT
wonder why arnos grove sidings isn't included in this
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Post by nig on May 24, 2019 10:07:06 GMT
It could well be due to control now passing from Earls Court to South Kensington that the new system of train control holds each train time by the Working Timetable at each platform stop but my knowledge of how South Ken operates is very limited. It only controls the semi automatic signals. Automatic signals do exactly that & work automatically. My understanding, in simple terms, is something like this: When Earls Court was in control it used program machines. These use a roll of film with holes punched in it similar to an automatic piano that played music based on the holes in a film that was fed through it. The program machine moves forward a step, waits for a train to appear and if it corresponds it operates the signalling and steps forward. So the process repeats. Now my understanding is that program machines can step forward up to two minutes early so in theory it allows an early running train to continue moving forwards......unless the signaller intervenes. I gather the new computer system at South Kensington tells the old program machines at Earls Court when it is ok to clear a signal and step forward. Because there seems to be no leeway in the computer system - its on time or, err, on time - it now holds many more signals at danger than was previously the case. Timetables are written with leeway built into them - booked stand times here and there - to account for odd little delays that may affect a given journey. Under the old pure program machine system if there were no delays you might get to the other end of the line a couple of minutes early. This new computer system won't allow to you run 10 seconds early let alone up to 2 minutes early, so you're now seeing much more of those built in timetabled stands. migrated to the new PICU (Piccadilly Interim Control Upgrade) system, the vast majority of semi-automatic station starters now hold trains to their timetable departure time. Same effect on the District between Barons Court and Ealing.......and not just station starters either. It's created SPAD traps all over the place where none existed before. And whilst in fairness you can't predict door issues, I've had it twice this week where the starter's held me for two minutes and then when they cleared I failed to get a pilot due to the stupid S stock door system which traps small items like pens, batteries and stones in the door runners. By the time I'd dealt with it I'd departed two minutes late. Had the station starters cleared a bit early like they used to, I'd of had a fighting chance of an on time departure. Hey ho. if that's the case can anyone explain why heathrow t 5 and t4 nearly always clear early not just by a few minutes can be as soon train gets into platform even if it doesn't depart for another 15 minutes
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SPADs
May 23, 2019 9:59:10 GMT
Post by nig on May 23, 2019 9:59:10 GMT
I agree with my colleagues that SPaD's have to be and are taken seriously. Sometimes on the Picc, we can go almost a week without one but at my depot, we have had 3 in the past 3 days. This then causes big issues with the drivers being stood down from driving duties until they go through the action plan process. This takes up Instructor Operator time and we are busy enough with the amount of trainees coming through (we have 27 in training at the moment). In terms of defensive driving and/or slow driving, I think in other threads there have been comments about the standard of driving. From my own observations, some of the driving is abysmal from the reckless to the tortoise. It doesn't help that instructors are left to do their own thing in terms of teaching and tend to teach exactly how they drive themselves. There really is no common approach. Driving on the Picc is somewhat interesting with the signalling system throwing us a few curved balls sometimes! Saying that, regardless of anything else, you should have your train under control at all times and be able to stop if you have to. I would of thought to be an instructor operator you would have to show your teaching skills and how you drive would be a big part of the application process or is it as long as you can bluff your way through a competency based interview you have got the job which in my opinion is why there are so many bad managers etc out there anyway off topic sorry
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SPADs
May 22, 2019 13:57:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by nig on May 22, 2019 13:57:28 GMT
The driving in the Piccadilly line these days is so slow. Not sure if it has anything to do with the condition of the trains though. I agree though that the fear of SPADs is causing too much defensive (slow) driving. Most likely that drivers are simply being trained to drive defensively. As above, I know that signalling bod's don't like it, but that is how we train new and transferring drivers. It's not only signalling bods they don't like it nothing worse than following a slow train then it reversers or goes down a diffent branch you can drive normally again not sure if that is down to the teaching of defensive driving but there should be a way of getting very ow drivers to drive faster but safley
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SPADs
May 22, 2019 12:46:13 GMT
Post by nig on May 22, 2019 12:46:13 GMT
Why is there such a lot of kerfuffle about SPADs? Most signals are equipped with TPWS on the main line and LU has trainstops or ATO. If a train passes a red signal, it will stop automatically; so why do we treat a SPAD as a sort of criminal offence? It should be regarded as wrong, yes but not to the extent of relieving drivers and teaching defensive driving. Defensive driving is a waste of a valuable and expensive asset. Trains should be braked hard into a station to minimise the run in time and accelerated hard to minimise the run out time otherwise all that expensive kit is a waste of money. Ah, I miss drivers who knew how to drive properly! 😂😂 The driving in the Piccadilly line these days is so slow. Not sure if it has anything to do with the condition of the trains though. I agree though that the fear of SPADs is causing too much defensive (slow) driving. There is nothing wrong with the trains on the pic trains have different breaking charastics but only takes a few stations to get to know the train just a lot of slow drivers not sure if its the training new or just defensive driving The district line seem to come into the platforms a lot slower than they used to why spads have a lot of kerfuffle is once you had one you have gone past the safety feature of train stopping then move off there is a very high chance of a derailment or collision if you get things wrong and no more safety features to stop you
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Post by nig on Apr 15, 2019 17:23:25 GMT
station went below minimum numbers so had to close till another member of staff could be drafted in csa not seriously hurt though luckily
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Post by nig on Feb 25, 2019 14:12:59 GMT
There used to be a rusty rail move late in the evening (416) which used to tip out at Harrow and run empty to Rayners Lane and wrong road back out of the Westbound platforn to Neasden depot. I wonder if this short trip today was reversed in the Westbound platform or via the siding? I would expect via the platform if not to effect the Piccadilly. that still runs most nights think its around 00.50 departs rayners
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Post by nig on Feb 1, 2019 15:38:25 GMT
just seen this www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Comment/siemens-deep-tube-keeping-london-moving-and the quote near the bottom is Our new rail manufacturing facility in Goole, East Riding of Yorkshire – which we announced plans to build in early 2018 and where a proportion of the trains will be made – will lead to the creation of up to 700 direct jobs (and another 250 in the construction phase), with a further 1,700 potential UK supply chain roles.
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Post by nig on Jan 17, 2019 14:54:19 GMT
I was on the Piccadilly yesterday and my train from Osterley arrived at Acton Town on the District platform. Maybe though the splitting of the four tracks into dedicated lines for each Line is planned for the future (ie: not happened yet). Don't think you will be able to split the platforms at Acton Town as pic uses district westbound to go down the local to west of Acton and eastbound platform if coming off the local from Northfields as well as use them for normal running and to put trains in the sidings . Also have to be a way for pic to use the track to Ealing common and what about when the pic takes over Ealing broadway in the future Personally only see splitting the lines causing more delays.
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Post by nig on Jan 10, 2019 14:11:58 GMT
I am fairly sure the new trains will come with some sort of wheel slip protection which should significantly reduce or largely eliminate the leaf fall issue? However even if the new trains are perfect from day one (which remains to be seen) that improvement in performance on the Piccadilly is still a few years ahead. So it is not unreasonable to think is there anything else which TFL could be doing to mitigate the problem until then. Earlier in this thread the idea of turning most services at Rayners Lane during leaf fall season was aired and appears to offer fairly immediate advantages of reducing Piccadilly track mileage at a time when serviceable vehicles are likely to be in short supply, with the side benefit of allowing the S8 services, which apparently are better equipped for poor rail conditions to make better progress. The idea that someone at TFL towers might be charged with devising a special leaf fall season timetable, like they do for the Met, does not seem entirely unreasonable. Whether or not that leaf fall timetable might be best achieved by using a small fleet to shuttle between Rayners Lane and Acton Town is presumably something the planners can weigh up at the same time. What people want is trains and reliable frequency. However perhaps the most worrying announcement made by TFL recently was the decision to shelve plans to replace the Piccadilly signalling system - which already seems to be responsible for an awful lot of service issues - indeed far more than due to defective trains due to wheel flats. Personally I would prefer to be on board an old train making good progress than a fancy new one which has ground to a halt thanks to faulty signalling. They do have a special leaf fall season timetable for the last 2 years and apparently this years was a joke trains were running late every day as soon as normal timetable came back in hardly any more late running so definitely needs to be looked at better for next year . Problem with acton town shuttle is the reversing at acton causes even more delays to the rest of the line as takes a while to detrain. and when go into the sidings slowly no trains can go eastbound till there fully berthed on the pic line
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Post by nig on Jan 10, 2019 13:53:43 GMT
The trains are heavier after refurb and are worked a lot more than when new. Also in as delivered condition they were fitted with wheel slip/slide detectors but it didn't work and it was removed. The refurb was in 1999 although they have always had a few flats but nothing like we saw in 2016 so something somewhere must have changed
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Post by nig on Jan 10, 2019 13:50:08 GMT
S stocks can not run along the branch as the signalling runs at 33 1/3 Hz and might interfere between the signalling and the train. When the moved the 92 stock between Ruislip Depot and Ealing Common Depot via Rayners Lane the train had to be isolated for similar reasons plus no tripcock installed if thats the case how come pic shares the track with s stock at ealing acton and on the uxbridge branch ?
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Post by nig on Nov 27, 2018 10:52:18 GMT
The cab is accessed from the saloon via the J door by a key which only the driver has.
• There will also be an emergency access button which can be pushed to open the cab door, but with a delay.
• If the access button is used, an alarm sounds in the drivers cab and the driver can then override it to stop the door opening if necessary.
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Post by nig on Jul 18, 2018 21:25:03 GMT
So the obvious question is what slows the train down if it's going more than 44 (or whatever) mph? The westcode brake (friction brake ) All the friction brakes come on to begin with it's only when all conditions are met does rheostatic take over such as speed and if motors aren't working on one motor car that car will stop on the friction brake
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Post by nig on Jul 18, 2018 15:34:43 GMT
From memory, the rheostat brake comes on at 37 mph and goes off at 7 mph. Does that mean it's friction brakes only outside that range? When brakes are applied all friction brakes come on if speed is between 21 and 44 ( might be higher than 44 can't quite rember but not definetly not 37 ) mph and all is well the rheostatic brake will come on in 4 motor cars and stay on till around 8mph or brakes are realised . They stop at a constant rate and if apply more or less brakes it's only the trailer cars friction brake that work .. where you get the surge people talk about is when you put brake into emergency rheostatic brake comes off and all friction brakes apply but train seems to have a little delay when rheostatic comes off and other brakes apply The other surge is if you go into off and realese below 21 mph then brake again you was used to rheostatic brake which is fairly good but now your just on friction brake and depending on train aren't always that good so say a service 2 now won't be as good as what it was with rheostatic hence feels like a surge That's why we was taught not to go into off and realese halfway down platforms unless you have to Although the friction brake is a lot better than it used to be. But drivers seem to be going a lot slower into platforms these days
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Post by nig on Jul 12, 2018 22:16:34 GMT
Here’s a video from the late 80s. Go to 1:30 and you will see a Piccadilly Line 1973 stock entering Kings Cross westbound. Seems a bit quicker than nowadays. There is a 35 mph speed limit now with clear signals but most drivers seem to come in a lot slower maybe they should use that as a training video
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Post by nig on Jul 12, 2018 15:24:38 GMT
Are the brakes less effective than they used to be? That's probably a question for Fish. The main issue is that no two trains are the same and driving at the other end of the same train is also not the same. Added to that, the performance of the motors dictates to an extent the performance of the rheostat brakes. Theoretically, if we start braking when the speed of the train is above around 21mph, the rheo brake replaces the friction brake on the 4 motor cars. Sometimes this is the case, sometimes it isn't. Some trains the rheo brakes don't work at all. Also, if you release the brakes halfway down the platform, you get a surge when the rheos release and it takes a couple of seconds (seems longer) for the friction brakes to apply. It doesn't take long to get a feel for the train and what it's likely to do but sometimes, the unexpected happens so it's good to err on the side of safety. if you release the brakes halfway down platform how do you get a surge surley all the brakes release so friction brake won't apply there is lots of slow drivers on picadilly line at moment not sure if its because of the training new trian ops or just a lot of defensive driving i was taught and still do enter the platform up to 40 mph depends on station service 4 reducing it till come to a stop in off and release some trains take longer to stop once rheos release and friction brake comes on at 8 mph but you soon get the feel for the train if you need to go into off and release halfway down platforms your going too slow
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Post by nig on May 14, 2018 7:25:54 GMT
District to Rayners would need cutbacks elsewhere. Someone with a better knowledge of the timetables than me might be able to say what the peak frequencies and journey times on the Rayners and Ealing branches are: the number of extra S stocks needed being the difference between the round trip time/service interval ratios on the two branches. Cutting back the service to terminate at Rayners would help, but would probably not be enough. There would of course be one supernumary S8 thanks to cancellation of the Watford extension, but that on its own would not be enough. With the advent of TfL-X-Liz at Ealing Broadway, is there scope for the Ealing Broadway service (whether operated by the Picc or the District) to be cut back to an Acton Town - Ealing Broadway shuttle, thereby improving capacity on the other branches? (It could be operated by either S stock or 1973 stock, (or anything in the Acton museum that's in working order..........................) Another thought is to do with how to deal with compromise height and/or platform doors at Ealing Common if different stocks are in use there. The use of platform doors would make it straiughtforward and safe to have only one of the two types call there - i.e Ealing Common would be served by only one of the two lines passing through. The doors would remain shut when trains of the other type whizz through. I was never sold on the concept of transferring Ealing Broadway to the Piccadilly. Building extra platforms at Chiswick Park seems about as sensible as electrifying the Ongar branch instead of the Ally Pally branch. It would be far cheaper to just have the Piccadilly Line trains which are going to call here use the correct tracks between Acton Town and a new junction to the east of Chiswick Park. This will also maintain some semblance of existing connections between stations Acton Town - Turnham Green for local passengers. If extra trains are needed on the Richmond branch then get London Overground to supply them. Its also part of the TfL empire - and will soon be getting more trains! The planned new station at Old Oak Common will offer connections to areas of Central London (via Crossrail) that will provide greater choice than currently exists. As for the Wimbledon branch, the loss of platform at Putney Bridge complicates life, as otherwise a Putney Bridge - High St. Kensington shuttle would have possibly have been the cheapest solution, along with getting SWR to reintroduce through trains that also call at East Putney, Southfields and Wimbledon Park. This would have boosted the service without needing Ealing trains diverting to Wimbledon. For extra rolling stock get all S7's off the Met* plus if need be free up stock by making some Hammersmith and City trains which reverse at Barking reverse at Plaistow instead. *If need be also run more Piccadilly trains to Uxbridge and reverse some Met trains at Rayners Lane! re: 33 trains an hour on the Piccadilly, I wonder how the eastern end of the line will manage. Maybe it will be possible with stepping back at Cockfosters? At present some trains reverse at Arnos Grove, would this continue? If so, would it be managed in a way which means that eastbound trains no longer need to queue because the terminating train is waiting for a free platform? Ideally the Piccadilly needs a second eastern branch, but I suspect that this is a topic for another thread. Simon dont think its a matter of more trains needed its the lines capacity so cant physically have more trains to richmond and wimbledon with doing Ealing broadway as well
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Post by nig on May 10, 2018 11:40:54 GMT
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Post by nig on May 9, 2018 17:24:03 GMT
It's an interesting plan for Ealing Broadway, however, had sufficient S stock been ordered, (probably too late to order more) it may have been better to transfer the Rayners Lane branch to the District. This would give common stock using the same signalling for the District and Met and also solve the Ealing Common depot and Chiswick Park issues. Or is that too simple an idea? District to Rayners would need cutbacks elsewhere. Someone with a better knowledge of the timetables than me might be able to say what the peak frequencies and journey times on the Rayners and Ealing branches are: the number of extra S stocks needed being the difference between the round trip time/service interval ratios on the two branches. Cutting back the service to terminate at Rayners would help, but would probably not be enough. There would of course be one supernumary S8 thanks to cancellation of the Watford extension, but that on its own would not be enough. With the advent of TfL-X-Liz at Ealing Broadway, is there scope for the Ealing Broadway service (whether operated by the Picc or the District) to be cut back to an Acton Town - Ealing Broadway shuttle, thereby improving capacity on the other branches? (It could be operated by either S stock or 1973 stock, (or anything in the Acton museum that's in working order..........................) Another thought is to do with how to deal with compromise height and/or platform doors at Ealing Common if different stocks are in use there. The use of platform doors would make it straiughtforward and safe to have only one of the two types call there - i.e Ealing Common would be served by only one of the two lines passing through. The doors would remain shut when trains of the other type whizz through. Acton reversers would really mess up the piccadilly line as you cant send a pic line east while a train is going into the sidings and most of the time they are held outside .. at the moment there is no mention of platform edge doors and the height issues havent been a problem for the last 50 odd years although if the piccadilly did ealing broadway there wouldn't be an issue
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Post by nig on May 9, 2018 15:45:59 GMT
If Chiswick Park was moved to the Richmond Branch, would District trains still run to Acton Town? And if not, what would be the point of the four tracks? More test tracks instead? would still need the line to move trains to and from ealing common depot
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Post by nig on May 9, 2018 15:45:11 GMT
It's an interesting plan for Ealing Broadway, however, had sufficient S stock been ordered, (probably too late to order more) it may have been better to transfer the Rayners Lane branch to the District. This would give common stock using the same signalling for the District and Met and also solve the Ealing Common depot and Chiswick Park issues. Or is that too simple an idea? not that simple think the problem is they want more trains on richmond branch so cant physically fit enough trains on the line to do this possibly because of earls court but not certain why also the bridges are too low for S stock to run full speed on rayners branch so need a lot of track lowering
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Post by nig on Apr 15, 2018 16:37:00 GMT
Just had a word with my ASLEF rep and the SPAD policy is..... - if you have four SPADs in two years then you are dipped to stations for a year after which you can reapply for driver and go through the whole process again - normally after three SPADs in two years you are offered a move to an ATO line (welcome to Brixton depot, abandon hope all ye who enter here) Again, disciplinary action and probably sacking only applies when a SPAD is aggravated I understand moves to ATO lines is now frowned upon - by both union and LU. Firstly it means people potentially get fast-tracked on movements ahead of people on the transfer list, thus being seen as a reward for poor performance. Secondly it means the ATO lines get lumbered with problem people, which a greater than proportionate amount of multi-SPAD drivers seem to be. thought they also had agreement now you had to be driving for 5 years before you were offered a ATO line for spads
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Post by nig on Jan 19, 2018 16:04:23 GMT
This status makes me laugh: Piccadilly Line: No service between Kings Cross and Arnos Grove eastbound only, due to emergency engineering work at Wood Green. Tickets will be accepted on London Buses and Great Northern via any reasonable route. GOOD SERVICE on the rest of the lineIf they are reversing the service at Kings Cross, no way will there be a good service on the rest of the line! been changed to this now Piccadilly Line: No service between Kings Cross and Arnos Grove eastbound and between Arnos Grove and Wood Green westbound only, due to emergency engineering work at Wood Green not sure how that works as you need east bound trains to reverse at wood green to have a southbound service so basically suspended kings cross to arnos grove both roads or wood green to arnos grove both roads
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Post by nig on Jan 18, 2018 1:38:55 GMT
Very long term can't see that happening anytime within the next 15 years to have same pay and conditions would mean for every 10 ish drivers working 4 hours less they would need to employ another driver .. why can't they let people that want to work 4 day week work it could be in on the next timetable change ..
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Post by nig on Jan 17, 2018 8:48:48 GMT
RMT Upfront: pull the plug on compressed working week ... well thats the end of that then ....
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Post by nig on Nov 22, 2017 10:38:55 GMT
Surely the bakerloo line is a more of a misery line if the rolling stock is older and more unreliable? The trains aren't the problem on the pic its the amount of track and signal failures
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Post by nig on Oct 15, 2017 19:49:44 GMT
RMT were never really in favour of it maybe as can't get similar deal for stations they balloted there T/op members before last pay deal to see wether to persue it was a close call 52 percent in favour if I recall I think ta more to do with breaking of driving perameters and pursuit of dropping weekly hours, as it stands, the trial doesn't deal with these London Underground is willing to do a trial of a four day, 36 hour week - for volunteers only - in two depots; to establish if it is possible to implement safely, as well as being cost effective and popular with drivers. The framework agreement will need to change only for those drivers who volunteer – it will remain unchanged for all others. The company has said that the working day needs to be at least 10 hours, and driving time needs to be increased to at least 4 hours and 45 minutes. This will be subject to further negotiation and will clearly suit some drivers, but not others. Once members have had their say on this matter we will continue with detailed negotiations and try to get into a position where we have a whole package on pay and Night Tube. Only at that stage will we ask you to vote on whether to accept the entire offer. Your ballot papers for this referendum will arrive shortly. Please ensure your voice is heard. It was a ballot for the trail exactly how it was trialled and to be fair how i would want to work it although new agreement has come in where 3 Drivers from each depot can work a 4 day week on reduced hours
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:49:17 GMT
Really i thought that would be a big factor if you got hour commute thats 2 hours less travelling a week I have a personal life, a 4 day week would mean cancelling most of it and I'm not willing to do that. The things I want to do I wouldn't be able to. Work to live, not live to work you would have a extra day to live and not work cant see how working extra hour or 2 a day would cancel your personal life its not like that its working a 12 hour day like some jobs
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