roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 9, 2009 7:07:14 GMT
Anyone visiting Belgium and into trians knows about the vicinal line which runs along the coast, but not many know about the Tramway Tourisitique d'Aisne www.tta.beA nice little line situated in a wooded valley, the TTA has a wide collection of metre gauge diesel trams. It's about 50km south of Liege, which also has I'm told a very good transport museum.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 9, 2009 7:03:26 GMT
Correct etr220. The stopping trains always used the centre roads, that way BR only had to maintian 1 platform and 1 set of platform staff (when they used tohave them).
Line speed was 60 on all roads IIRC. There was an emergency crossover between Point Pleasant and Putney between the centre roads. I used it a couple of times during planned engineering works. It had to clipped and scotched.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 8, 2009 10:31:55 GMT
Engines that were vacuum braked were easier to provide with horns; engines that had air brakes were easier to provide with air whistles? Doh, has anyone invented a vacuum operated horn yet??
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 8, 2009 10:28:55 GMT
I'm glad I travelled on them when I got the chance, they really were relics from the past. If anything, they felt even more primitive than Standard Stock on the IoW. They were, especially when you had to do 16 trips a day on them!
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roythebus
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DRICO
Aug 7, 2009 18:35:18 GMT
Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 18:35:18 GMT
Ah yes, I remember now! The actual drico thing was fitted in the cab. The wooden telephone box was useful as a defence mechanism on a Friday evening when the pubs chucked out!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 18:33:22 GMT
Underground stock runs alongside OHLE in a number of places and the equipment on the trains has been designed to cope with it.
I'm not saying Amersham-Aylesbury is a short infill. there certainly have been problems on the Met with icing. they used to have to pass a warming current through the juice rails to try to prevent them icing up!
Another problem with diesel units is that they need new engines every 4 years or so. I know because my son happens to be a fleet engineer at Selhurst, and all the Marsh line units fell to pieces at the same time!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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DRICO
Aug 7, 2009 15:47:07 GMT
Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 15:47:07 GMT
Do they still use the DRICO emergency telephone and current cut-off sytem on LT?
For those that may not know, there used to be a pair of bare copper wires running along the wall of the tunnels. To cut off the current in and emergency, the motorman or guard could either pinch them together or short across them with his reverser key. This would then operate a gizmo in the sub-sustation and put the juice off.
The motorman would carry a small wooden box with him which contained the emergency telephone handset. This could be clipped to the bare wires to contact the line controller. Certain trains would be booked an extra minute in places to perform a DRICO test. No doubt this has been replaced by radio these days!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 15:41:02 GMT
The ESB was actually built in the Metropolitan Borough of Fulham. The London borough of Fulham and Hammersmith did not exist then!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 7:58:49 GMT
In my view it would make sense to have the Aylesbury line done at 25kv, even if it means having a dual system from Marylebone. the OHLE is not (usually) susceptible to icing up like any surface contact rail. the dual system has already been proven on the Euston-Watford line and other places, so what's the problem?
The major additional cost would be immunising the LT signalling along the route.
IIRC the Southern infill section is Ashford-Hastings. It would be very sensible to electrify this last outpost of diesel operation, and with the greater availablity of dual voltage rolling stock, I don't see many compatability problmes, Remember, Ashford already has 25kv ac and 750v dc!
I think any new 3rd/4th rail extensions except short infills is a no-brainer in this day and age.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 7:51:52 GMT
I presume by "concreted off" they refer to the large wall erected at the top of the escalators. Re: Aldgate East... I wonder what it'd be like if it were done today? 6 months of weekend closures between Tower Hill and Whitechapel?! Nah, with elfen safetea at least 2 years with replacement bus services!! ;D
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 7:49:29 GMT
Yes, the ESB was used for secret squirrel stuff in the 60's. I used to work in Patricks Toys on Lillie Road about that time before I left school so know a thing or two about it.
The ERF lorry appear to be an ERF demonstrator as it has ERF on the cab doors. It may have been leaving Lillie Bridge, but possibly could have been on display at the Commercial Motor show which was held at Earls Court in those days.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 7, 2009 7:46:16 GMT
To answer the above, from memory the guard had the same key as the LT stock as a change end switch. The door control batteries were wired in series with the marker lights and cab lights. The cab light, when switched off, then switched on a light in the equipment room or elsewhere.
It is unlikely that these trains would have been suitable for working elsewhere as they were designed for the 4 minute journey. they weren't fitted with heaters or windscreen wipers. They were considered for IoW use in the 1960's but were unsuitable because of these resons, also the 6 trains would not have been enough for that service, hence the choice of standard stock.
They may well have fitted other tube lines, but why bother when the far superior 38TS had recently been introduced?
The W&C stock had much in common with the then current Southern Railway practice, Westinghouse brakes, no EP, and many parts in common with the "new" SUB stock, which had much in common with the earlier SR stock.
The SR Westinghouse was a different animal to the LT version as this was designed as THE service brake. I had every confidence in that brake but its operation depended on the skill of the driver, something that is lost on today's rolling stock. I don't know of any instances of any train hitting the blocks at Bank, though it must have happened.
Getting the cars out of the W&C using the Anderson lift was interesting as the couplers had to be removed. The cars with couplers were too long for the lift! they were driven under power round to the lift, then pich barred the last few feet onto the lift so I'm told. It's a move I never had to do. The Anderson lift still exists, it is the concrete block in the middle of the erstwhile Eurostar terminal!
In the arch next to the lift under the station was the Plans Arch, a veritable haven of SR history. I believe the chap who ran that is now at LT Museum as a curator of plans. therew as also a furniture store. I also noted a narrow gauge railway in the arches under Waterloo. Remember a lot of the arches there were used as bonded warehouses.
When one of the trains was withdrawn for scrapping in the mid 1980's, a lot of the brake equipment like drivers brake valves and triple valves "fell off" and is rumoured to have emigrated across the Solent for further use, not that I'd know anything about that!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 6, 2009 17:46:05 GMT
Yep, both correct there.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 22:59:14 GMT
The rvereseer key fitted the reverser (obviously) and also opened the DBVIC. The motorman also had a control key to turn on the low voltage supply. This key had pins protruding either side.
The guard had a similar key with pins protruding either side to open up his panel. The R stock guard had an additional key with offset pins to work the door control until they were replaced with panels from withdrawn Q stock, but I digress...
The GEC controllers with the centre button could well be the deadman on the button. Some of the ESLs had them.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 9:50:10 GMT
To reply to this ancient thread, the plank in the windscreen in SR emu stock was indeed the paddle. It would be placed not in the windscreen but on the handbrake to signify the handbrake was applied in that cab. All very unofficial of course, but it worked. The same idea was used on the Met and DR in my time on there. districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Trains&action=display&thread=1622
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 9:46:47 GMT
FWIW, the DB (deutsche Bundesbahn) uses whistles.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 9:46:05 GMT
I know why cows have horns, it's in case their bells don't work!!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 9:37:48 GMT
mrfs, I don't know what the D is for, possibly deicing, but I doubt that standard stock was fitted with de-icing equipment. That's what the ex CLR motor cars were for!
Standard reverser/control keys were used up till C69 stock; certainly on Q, R, A, 38ts, 59/60 etc TS and Victoria line stock. Also the ESL ex CLR locos, ESL118A+B, IIRC Sarah Siddons and battery locos.
Somewhere I've got an 8mm cine film (nudge nudge wink wink) of a cab ride in a standard stock on the IoW taken by me in about 1968. Whether that shows the reverser I don't know.
There were also at least two types of contoller used, some had an additional button in the middle of the deadman's handle which had to be depressed too. what is was for I can't remember. Standard stock had the A type EP brake, same as the Q stock.
Something seems to make me think with the button depressed the handle went round for another turn for weak field? Anyone older than me out there might just know!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 8:46:50 GMT
Again, browsing through the historic section, the diagram shown for Parsons Green is incorrect for the 1970's and earlier.
There were additional 2 car sidings, one from 23 siding parallel with 31 road, and another on 27 road down towards the building depot.
I don't know if the former LT Building and Works depot was ever rail-connected, but there was a narrow gauge railway inside the depot, presumably with hand pushed wagons to move materials around the works.
As a young bus spotter, we used to try and bunk our way in there to see what service vehicles were tucked away at the back!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 8:12:20 GMT
Having just browsed through and found this thread districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=History&action=display&thread=2543&page=2, I can possibly answer a few queries having worked on the W&C from 1980 to 88! Only one car was modernised with fluorescent lighting. I can't remember the number. It was a bit of an experiment, as everything else on the car worked on line volts except the guard's door control panel which was battery fed, like the Q stock. the modernised car was a cause of many complaints, especially from yours truly who at the time had very good hearing. The fuo tube inverters emitted a very high squeal, probably about 12kHz which I found very annoying, even for the 6 minutes or so I was in the cab. A few other young drivers heard it and complained. the older drivers, having some hearing loss couldn't fault it, so it was "Roy being a bloody nuisance again". With the introduction of the elfen safetea at work Act, they had to do something about it, so a chappie from Derby arrived with sound detcetion apparatus. He announced that there was indeed a high pitch whistling which could cause some discomfort. So the answer was to run that car at the Waterloo end of the train all the time so the driver didn't have the whistling to contend with! All stock was painted NSE colours during the early 80's, except the unit that was stored in the car sheds at Clapham juncion under wraps. It was IIRC deemed uneconomical to remove the asbestos from that set; 5 trains were enough for the service. The line closed for several months following the flexible rostering dispute. during that time the opportunity was taken to get the rolling stock up to scratch again! After that, it was all in NSE colours. There was a humorous moment when one motor car appeared with the INTO CITY on the Bank end. I don't know who could have done that....It was removed a couple of days later! The W&C also featured in an episode of Dempsey and Makepiece. I was the driver on that tain. the whole line was hired by the TV company for a complete Sunday. I managed to get a 16 hour sunday out of it. they started filming in the morning, and though 3 drivers were booked in the course of the day, they had to have the same driver on the filmed train for continuity purposes! At one stage, they had to run the train into bank and stop at a given point, the usual stop mark. I was asked to back out, and do it again. could I stop at the same point, yes I think so. At the 4th retake, the director asked how I could do that. He thought I was an actor driving the train! I told him I'd done it 16 times a day for the last few years... The Westinghouse brake on them was usually pretty good. It was possible to stop at Bank so close to the stop block that you could get the buffer block on the train to leave a grease mark on the buffer stop and not set off the train stop! The bobby at Bank never worked out that if the train stopped with a slight jolt, the train buffer would spring forward about 3 inches, kiss the buffer stop and go back to its original position, leaving a nice greasy mark on the buffers! The line was also fitted with speed control train stops following the recommendations after the Moorgate crash. again, your struly was the test pilot for the inauguration of the system, which in true BR fashion of the time didn't work properly.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 7:42:45 GMT
Yep, it's the same key. I've got one around somewhere. They also used the same control key, a spanner shape with a pin protruding from each side.
The reverser key would IIRC also open up the DBVIC (driver's brake valve isolating cock) on the feed pipe to the Westinghouse brake valve.
The old W&C stock used standard SR reverser key and DBVIC key as used on SUB and earlier stock.
I suspect there's a standard stock controller or two on the IWSR in their museum somewhere.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 4, 2009 17:19:42 GMT
IIRC the standard stock used the same reverser key as everything else on the Underground. a trip to the Isle of Wight may provide the answer.
The KESR Ford diesel loco uses the same BTH control turret and keys as tube stock!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 4, 2009 17:11:29 GMT
Further to my previous comments here about the proposed Aldwych extension to Waterloo, I've now found my copy of the London Transport Act 1965 (some sad gits around aren't there?) which states:
Work no.3 Enlargement of the runing tunnels of the Aldwych Branch of the Piccadilly Railway commencing at the south end of the wstbound station tunnel of Holborn Station and terminating at a point under Kingsway 165 yards south-east of the said point of commencement in the running tunnels of the said branch line;
In the city of Westminster and the London borough of Lambeth_ Work no.4 A railway (1154yards in length) being an extension of the Aldwych Branch of the Piccadilly Line railway commencing in the city of Westminster at the south end of the Aldwych station tunnels, passing under the river, and terminating in the London borough of Lambeth at a point 145 yards south of the south end of the north-west abutment of the bridge carrying the British Railways Board Southern Region railway over York Road;
In the London borough of Lambeth-
Work no.5 A subway (85yards in legth) commencing by a junction with the existing subway leading to the Bakerloo Line railway ay Waterloo Underground station and terminating in arch number 249 under the British Railways Board Southern Region Railway at Waterloo Atation at a point 69 yards south-east of the north-west end of the said arch.
So it would seem the proposal was to enlarge the Holborn branch platform(s) and the Alwych tunnels, and extend the line to Waterloo. There are no plans with the booklets I have, so I can't comment how this would have affected the existing tunnel layout.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 31, 2009 22:26:07 GMT
Surprising how modern the A stock still looks today!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 30, 2009 7:23:49 GMT
How long before the windows get etched I wonder??
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 24, 2009 8:26:18 GMT
I know several people in the Barnsley area who are prepared to pay decent proces for scrap metal....
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 16, 2009 19:16:48 GMT
Ah, KNEW there would be a use for that old paperwork one day. IIRC there was a Wimbledon Tennis WTT in the lot you got from me earlier??
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 15, 2009 8:14:07 GMT
Probably one of the most amusing and embarassing announcements was a Ricky guard, on one of his first Circle turns on a C69 (going back a long way here); Beach Baby he was known as, announced to his motorman on the cab to cab phone words to the effect that he was going to use the toilet at Aldgate for several minutes.
He reckoned he went bright red when he realised this announcement came out all along the train in glowing stereo, as he'd pressed the pa not the cab to cab button!! What made it more amusing when he told the tale was that he is a Carribean gent!!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 14, 2009 18:36:12 GMT
I'll reiterate what I said in other threads, that plans were laid before parliament in the 1963 session to extend the line to Waterloo. The powers were never used.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 14, 2009 6:36:16 GMT
Absolutely dangerous for the motorman and railway safety in general. It seems there are complete and utter idiots (I'd use a stronger word but would get banned) running the job.
How on earth is anyone supposed to clearly see a red aspect at that signal? what did the signal sighting committee have to say about it? The ASLEF H&S reps etc.
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