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Post by spsmiler on Sept 11, 2021 20:48:08 GMT
A heads up for anyone using the Central Line this weekend, just reported on the ASLEF WhatsApp group, there will be a shortage of control room staff at Wood Lane so there will be a special service, rumoured to be 26 trains Lummey
And as if things weren't bad enough RMT is reporting that anti-vaxxers are sticking up posters on the Tube with razor blades hidden behind them to injure anyone who tried to remove them. The "word" scum seems too mild for these sort www.rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/content/anti-vaxers-who-target-tube-lacing-posters-razor-bladesLast year I expressed my gratitude to public transport workers in keeping things running during the first crisis. Firstly i want to express my continued gratitude. Personally I wear a mask. Sure I don’t like them but it is not about me. In the peaks, ridership seems quite low and from Ealing I see more than most wearing masks, curiously at Shepherds Bush it seems to drop. I don’t get why people ignore the recommendations or hide blades etc - I am not going to offer anything beyond expressing my disgust at this. I don’t understand it and will not attempt to try to. All I can say is that me and probably most travellers do appreciate the risk being taken by tube workers and are not ‘selfish’ enough to not wear masks or follow the recommendations. They should be legally enforced but in all honesty those who ignore them now would continue to do so, and the police and other authorities are busy enough. So, I guess I am finishing this with another thank you - us travellers would be stuck without everyone working for TfL, please carry on doing the job you are not really recognised for. re: gratitude to the staff keeping the service going, I too would like to express gratitude, even though I was not allowed to use the services they were operating. re: the Central line service this weekend, I suppose that this is a side-effect of the inability to train staff due to covid restrictions, etc. As for the razor blades .... if true then I am horrified at the very thought of such depravity. I won't criticise them for their points of view about the vaccines, but I strongly condemn them for such unjustified evil. Causing what potentially could be life-changing harm to railway staff removing their flyposters is not the way to resolve the issue.
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 11, 2021 20:27:17 GMT
Does anyone have any updates on Ilford Station. Will the main entrance on Cranbrook Road reopen soon? That would be an astonishment. I walked past it yesterday, from the street it looks like very little is happening. Certainly none of the glass wall frontage has been installed. But it did look like the lift shafts for platform 1 and platforms 4 / 5* are currently under construction. The lift shaft for platforms 2 / 3 has been there for a while, alas carefully located so as to block the closest stairway between the street entrance and the platform used by London-bound trains. Whilst there is another stairway it is a distance along the platform and since passengers using the passageway to this other stairway will have plenty of time (ie: more time than they had when using the now blocked-off stairway) to see if a train is at the platform one can guarantee that more passengers than before will run down the stairs in the hope of reaching the train in time to catch it. *Although the track has been removed from platform 5 it still exists, as a disused entity. As an aside, but still related to Ilford station and Crossrail / Elizabeth line, it seems that the staffed ticket offices were recently equipped with new ticket machines and these do not work with Oyster cards. In other words in an act of disjointed thinking TfL's own smart card ticketing solution has been withdrawn from the staffed ticket offices. I'm told that the same applies to London Overground stations. Self service ticket vending machines still retain Oyster functionality - as does the POPs tobacconist retail shop next to Ilford station (in days gone by I often bought Travelcard tickets here as there was rarely a queue to be served - unlike the station ticket office).
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 11, 2021 20:03:39 GMT
A second life for more and different types of train.... surely not the diesel powered Pacers, however?
Also not any tube trains when they become available (1972, 1973, 1992 fleets)
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 3, 2021 21:44:42 GMT
Thank you. This will save me from trying to make my own using plasticard or something... I like this version having seats but was really hoping for a version that had lights - which could be adapted to actually work. Maybe what I should do is get the drawings (if possible) and have it 3D printed. Photo from here: c20society.org.uk/building-of-the-month/loughton-station-essexI’m looking at making some of these for my Harrow layout so I’ll let you know how it goes. Thank you
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 3, 2021 21:35:41 GMT
btw, Fully automated and unstaffed trains (and unstaffed stations) have existed in Lille, France for something like 40 years. The stations have platform doors.
By way of contrast, two systems which feature the same degree of automation but without platform doors are the Vancouver Skytrain which has been running since circa 1986 and Lyon metro line D which has been running since circa 1991.
I do not know what either system does to detect intruders (on the tracks) and to ensure safety when trains close their doors and depart from stations.
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 3, 2021 21:09:31 GMT
Thanks for that information - I emailed Phil Radley to tell him that I had discovered a correct colour for the train interiors and now think that I ought to pass on your updated information too.
I am curious about the 'tiny bit of blue paint' which you suggested. Which shade of blue?
I am unsure which colour to use for the seats, especially as these were red and green. Maybe I will use a dark red / wine colour.
This past week I spray painted a grey primer, I did it in the garden and left the models in the shed for the best part of the week, not just to dry fully but also because the paint smells awful!
I now need to test them for translucent-ness. I want to check that when I add internal lighting it does not shine through the plastic body!
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 29, 2021 12:04:20 GMT
Driverless trains, or varying Edgware Road District destinations other than Wimbledon, or whatever is being debated, perhaps I was not clear. Everyone comes up with "but we've always done it that way" reasons against new ideas - no-one [almost no-one] comes up with supporting suggestions or varying alternative options. Well yes, if Earls Court could be unclogged then both High Street Kensington and Edgware Road could be used for more services to more destinations. In addition, if CBTC increases capacity on the southern side of the Circle then maybe more trains could be run between Edgware Road and (for instance*) Plaistow, boosting the Circle line service between Victoria and Paddington. This would not directly affect Earls Court! But capacity issues as Edgware Road might mean that some Wimbledon trains would need to stop at High Street Kensington. *Had it been available Mansion House could have been a better terminus point as the section beyond Aldgate East might not be able to accept more trains. re: train AI and despatch, yes this would likely 'see' people caught in doors, probably even satchels, rucksacks / backpacks, arms, etc (especially as 'doors properly closed' detection would also flag an issue in these situations) but what about long hair, scarves, belts and winter coat cords / toggles? As a young child my gloves were on elastic so that if I took them off I did not loose them... these hung down from my jacket sleeves and could also be easily caught in closed doors.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 29, 2021 11:51:59 GMT
Oh the value of being able to research things said years ago... I'm looking for paint in the correct 'Cerulean Blue' colour for my Radley Models, a search here at DD has revealed that someone else found just what I'm looking for. This thread: districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/689/london-underground-colours quotes 'Citadel Dark Angels Green'.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 28, 2021 10:53:01 GMT
I seem to recall the JG Bruce book Tube Trains under London also cites the two serious arcing/fire incidents on Standard Stock in 1958 and 1960 at Redbridge and Holland Park as helping accelerate the decision to just go with 8 car trains of the 1959TS type train which of course became 1962TS for the Central. With hindsight and the problems with motors falling off the trains which replaced the 1962ts fleet in mind, many would say that its a shame that near-identical trains were not built again to replace the life-expired 1962 fleet.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 28, 2021 10:46:38 GMT
There used to be one above the Jubilee Line line diagrams as you get to the platforms at Bond Street (a photo can be seen here), but I don't know if it's still there after the Crossrail enabling works. very interesting web page - some of them were familiar to me, but not them all. I can see the logic in using differently shaped prongs on plugs (etc) as a way to try and ensure that people do not plug things in where they should not go, although nothing is ever fool-proof. I recall once seeing bare wires pushed in to the wall socket, as an alternative to a plug. This was 'many years ago' when going to Australia - the aircraft had to stop to refuel at Bombay airport and I took advantage of this to stretch my legs in the terminal building.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 24, 2021 23:30:28 GMT
We have a new timetable on the District from 12th September. Well, when I say new; it's the just the current one tweaked here and there. From the 12th September run times have apparently been "revised to reflect the faster run time offered by automatic train operation". To be honest, having skim read a few random trips here there throughout the traffic day, I don't really see much of a reduction. Maybe a minute or so between Tower Hill and Earls Court on some peak time trips but off peak looks no different. It'll be interesting to see how it works from 12th September but I'll be surprised if there's any dramatic change. Speaking with my driver's hat on the District has always had a very generous timetable whilst I've been on it (17 years) but the difference in driving style between legacy and CBTC signalling really highlights just how generous the timetable actually is. My view FWIW is because CBTC gives the driver a countdown timer in the cab its encouraging drivers to shut the doors and depart platforms much more quickly than was the case under legacy signalling. With experience a driver working on a legacy signalled railway can judge whether to waste a bit of time in a platform or get a move on in order to maintain the timetabled path. With the benefit of repeater signals and knowing how an area works, an experienced driver on the legacy railway can work out the best speed to travel through a particular area. The end result of all that experience is that you end up with a journey that likely appears to be more consistent in speed terms and faster than CBTC between stations. In reality the overall journey time is longer but you don't notice the extra dwell time the driver puts in at various platforms or that the driver controlled the speed between stations in a way that CBTC doesn't. With CBTC its go go go straight out of the traps after its encouraged the driver to get the doors shut and press the go buttons. All that achieves is train arriving at the next station earlier than it would have done. Now the train is running early and so CBTC ends up having to slow itself down. The end result is the appearance that CBTC is slower than drivers under legacy signalling. It seems that things are being allowed to drift.... instead of proactively managed. With proper management advantage would be taken of the quicker / shorter journey durations that are possible with CBTC.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 24, 2021 23:18:46 GMT
I wonder how much it is hoped to be raised by selling the land for redevelopment?
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2021 23:08:53 GMT
Its been a while since I updated this thread. Partly because progress has been slow. I never seem to have enough time! Anyway, I still have not built the 'Mind the Gap' tube station - I was searching for some postal tubes which I knew I had in the loft. I will get around to this eventually, but am thinking of making it a recreated tube station located at a transport museum. (The 1825 station at Beamish was relocated to there, brick by brick, so the concept already exists 'in real life'). As no models of gate end stock exist I'll put in a couple of Radley Standard Stock tube train cars. I might modify them to have open doors and people inside. I've recently discovered Kingsway printed stations and buildings and am partway through building some of their designs. For platforms I chose the one based on a 1930s station platform. I very much did not want a Northern line south London style station platform as that has no emotional attachment for me. 2mm square section Evergreen / Plastruct plastic strips painted black can represent the tube style of power rails. I have the Peco power rail chairs. I need to fit lights in the station and have found some 30 mm LED lights which could be used to mimic fluorescent lights. I'd like to have them hang down a little from the platform ceiling but it might be easier to not do this. Having looked at photos of real underground stations I've seen enough varieties to know that whatever I do will be prototypically correct for somewhere. I did experiment with fibre optics of a type designed to leak light along the fibre but the amount of light coming out was too little - its a shame as this would have been an easier - and cheaper - option. This image shows part of a platform. I am hoping that one of the model railway suppliers will make for me the correct LU style of platform edge coping with tactile 'dots' (I have asked but await a reply). Then I can add the rest of the platform and get rid of the white cardboard edge seen here. I also need to add adverts, platform end signs, seats, passengers etc. If available I'll also add platform end barriers. I am unsure what to do about litter bins. The name Hitherton comes from something I bought in the late 1990s when the London Underground Railway Society (LURS) were given permission for members to have model railway station names printed using the correct LT logo. I had to choose a name... and that was all I could think of. That said, Kingsway agreed to use my choice of station name as seen here - but I intend to use some of the LURS signage on 'open air' platforms at this station. As Kingsway do not offer passageways with matching tiles I am looking at using a similarish colour card (full colour / not printed) and printing on it a fine grid. This station will be modern-era, with some heritage elements (eg: way out signs) similar to stations such as Highgate, Gants Hill, etc. For station building I chose Mile End (printed with my choice of name) as its sort of from the right era and does not look too big physically / will easily fit in a row of shops. I need modern ticket machines and if I cannot find them commercially will look to reduce something that I photographed down to a small enough image and then print it myself. I'm building my two platform kits slightly differently to how they are meant to be built - I plan to make part of one platform a fully circular tube and even add the inside tube from a kitchen roll beyond the station so that it is possible to look through the station and see the approaching train illuminating the inside of the kitchen roll cardboard tube. For the other platform, wait and see! (cheat comment - Its only just arrived and I cannot build it whilst using a computer). Just to test the concept I pushed an unbuilt kit by Radley of a Standard Stock tube car plus some track in to a kitchen roll cardboard tube. It looks like the cardboard tube will need cutting and widening at the base, but otherwise it will work. As an aside, the tube car kit is a delight, everything just fits together, even the bogie components. So it should be easy to make. When it comes to painting I will have a choice of three colour schemes - plain red, red with cream window frames or red, cream window frames and blue stripe. This third livery was used on trains that went to all the way to Watford Junction instead of just Elephant & Castle - Queens Park.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2021 22:31:11 GMT
From Sat 4 September at Hammersmith 22A/B and 23A/B points will be plain-lined, thus preventing eastbound local trains access to the fast (Picc) line and eastbound fast trains access to the eastbound local (District). Piccadilly trains departing Acton Town platform 4 must not accept WL106 route 1 (EB local) District trains departing Acton Town platform 4 must not accept WL106 route 2 (EB fast) to Hammersmith District trains can be reversed via Barons Court sidings in extreme circumstances. Does that mean Piccadilly line trains can't serve District line stations anymore during closure? (Well at least for Chiswick Park and the odd Stamford Brook) In a way Stamford Brook is like a variation of the station on the Paris Metro where only trains travelling in one direction have a platform, trains travelling in the opposite direction run through non-stop... whilst on a downward sloping section of track. I think this station was only given one platform because it is on a loop.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2021 22:21:51 GMT
The TfL Programmes & Investment Committee meeting in March 2021 was told that by the end of 2021 the Bakerloo line should see the completion of eight trains with LED lighting, wheelchair bays and RVAR compliant grab poles, with a complete Passenger Information System installation on one train. Compliance as far as the trains are concerned but step free access to the platforms on the line is minimal. I don't know if they've managed to produce a working ramp design for the stations north of Queens Park to get wheelchairs on and off the trains. At some stations the height difference between train floor and platform is so great that any sort of ramp would need to be dangerously steep.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2021 22:17:30 GMT
Yikes and cringe ... will something rebuilt and something new be opening or will there be egg on face?
What a saga....
ps: in between me opening this message and me pressing the 'post quick reply' button the forum decided to throw me out and make me log in again. I then had to refresh this page, fortunately I had copied the message to the clipboard so did not lose it.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2021 22:10:00 GMT
I'm wondering how many of these trains actually passed the remaining BR goods trains which ran until the mid 1960s and passenger trains which ran until 1970?
Or maybe the BR trains ran at such obscure hours that the Hainault - Woodford shuttle was not in operation at the same time as them?
Certainly in the Woodford area the Class 105 diesel multiple unit trains travelled on tracks which were equipped for automatically driven trains, both 1960 and 1967 tube stocks.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2021 22:01:09 GMT
Another part of the story was that LT wanted new trains for the Central line 'pdq' (pretty damn quick) because (some of)* the mainline services out of Liverpool Street that passed through Hackney Downs were being electrified and they (LT) expected a surge in passenger numbers wanting onward travel from Liverpool St to the City and West End. This worried them greatly, as they thought that even with 8 car trains the Standard Stock would be unable to cope. It was not just reliability (or not) of the older trains, but also the fleet size (insufficient?) and that the older trains had some internal space lost to electrical control gear whereas the newer trains had all their control gear below the solebar.
So, with their planned but much delayed 1952 tube stock not fully tested and proven viable they just extended the existing order for the 1959 stock trains.
The 1952 Tube stock was effectively the 1960ts DMs which it had been hoped could be married with refurbished Standard stock trailers - many of which had spent all of WW2 dumped in sidings in the Hainault area and because of this had deteriorated in condition. Whilst no more of the (now) 1960ts DMs were built they included some design etc cues that were adopted by the next generation of tube trains - 1967/72. Things such as a new style of opening window covers.
*)Alas, as the late Snoggle would have pointed out had he still been with us, part of the network ended up being closed (eg: Hall Farm Curve).
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 3, 2021 23:26:11 GMT
Why can't platform 12 be used? It even uses the same steps as 1 & 2 - at one end of the platform.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 3, 2021 23:23:37 GMT
“Baker Bellfield has now been selected to supply the partition walls between the drivers’ cabs and the passenger saloon cars for the … Piccadilly line.” Is this a new method of cab construction? I recall that these trains were originally planned to have no cabs, but then a temporary cab until resignalling allowed the cabs to be removed. linkAm I interpreting this correctly: The trains are designed for completely driverless operation, but will have a temporary cab constructed so that a driver can drive the train until such time as completely driverless operation is implemented? That sounds as if they are getting way ahead of themselves. That sounds about right, but not unattended operation - ie: similar to the DLR
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 2, 2021 8:57:29 GMT
I thought that these were the best ones, because they had large text that could be read from a distance and could show different colours. Everything else from then has been downhill / retrograde 'improvement', even money wasted (to my eyes)!
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 1, 2021 22:23:59 GMT
Is this also because whilst it was possible to fit two 3 carriage Class 378 trains in one platform (either 1 or 2) this is no longer an option with 5 car trains?
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 1, 2021 22:21:50 GMT
I believe Super 8 cine film was very much a thing back then for both sound & vision ;-) Yes, and Standard 8 before it. Three minute reels of film which often 'ran out' at the wrong moment (just as the train arrived!) The camera we had was silent.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 31, 2021 20:00:47 GMT
I'll bed sad to see half the tunnels at Camden Town become disused and I'm not sure if passengers will welcome loss of 'one seat' / through train journey possibilities
Especially for the weekend I would expect far more passengers to want the West End than Financial District / Bank branches
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 31, 2021 19:38:51 GMT
When trains were new... smarting at having failed to record any sounds of the Class 306 trains that these replaced I bought a battery powered cassette tape player and on my way home from work recorded the sound of these trains (and an all-stations slam-door train). Little did I know that a few years later I would get myself a camcorder which gave me both sound and vision!
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 31, 2021 19:29:18 GMT
Thank you. This will save me from trying to make my own using plasticard or something... I like this version having seats but was really hoping for a version that had lights - which could be adapted to actually work. Maybe what I should do is get the drawings (if possible) and have it 3D printed. Photo from here: c20society.org.uk/building-of-the-month/loughton-station-essex
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 31, 2021 19:02:25 GMT
They will hopefully come up with a method to deal with that. The ideal solution would to use LED displays but I'd guess it'd cost a fortune to retrofit them. The new R211 cars for the NYC Subway will have them as shown in a demo in the following video (4:08 - 5:12): I was about to make the same suggestion, albeit using liquid crystal display technology (LCD) rather than light emitting diodes (LED).
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 29, 2021 18:31:34 GMT
Unfortunately for fans of Class 315s it's not secure yet. All that has been agreed is that Eversholt Rail will sell a Class 315 to the preservation society if the latter can raise the money. The last I heard (earlier this week) they had not reached the target. Oh dear, I did not know that part of the story. Is the amount needed and the date by which it must be paid in the public domain?
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 29, 2021 16:13:04 GMT
I do not know the unit's number but one Class 315 train is being preserved - see tweet here
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 28, 2021 12:47:13 GMT
Hounslow West was built for the District, to District specs. LT, TfL and the Picc are newbies here That might be true with the original Hounslow West, nee Barracks, but you'd certainly stuggle with getting an S7 into the reconstructed station that is the one under discussion here... re. "half-in, half out" tube stations, I can nominate some tenuous "close, but no cigar" options: - Kensal Green has the portals to the tunnels immediately at the end of the platform and is in a quite deep cutting - ditto Drayton Park- historically, you could have considered the East London line a tube railway when '38 Stock ran on it. Plenty of half-open, half-covered stations on the line. But I think these probably aren't really what you're looking for and I may be teaching you to suck eggs... What about Edgware though? The far north end of the island platform is a bit "underground" where the bridge/tunnels of the Bushey Heath extension is/are. The other end of the line, Morden, has somewhat similar qualities. Wood Lane on the Central might qualify as a historical example, depending on your criteria. Thanks everyone The new Hounslow West could have been what I had in mind but they put a car park over all of it! I was looking at it yesterday using Google maps and was somewhat miffed because the image quality is not very good (truly dire when compared with the Google image quality of my local area - Ilford). I was curious to see the new concrete embankment retaining walls where the line diverted away from the old platforms but it was not very clear. The same issue of 'only building to tube gauge' would likely have applied to Edgware and north had it been built, as it is possible that to cope with high passenger demand the Moorgate service to Ally Pally would have ended up with the larger S stock sized trains and the Bushey Heath via Edgware service using the same trains so as to eliminate services to Moorgate using differently sized trains - with the differently sized trains using their own dedicated platforms at East Finchley and Finchley Central. Plus (perhaps) with the planned peak hour Moorgate - High Barnet via Finsbury Park trains being withdrawn. I note how even the sections at platform which are undercover at Edgware (and Morden) do not have the suicide pits. Returning to this thread, another subsurface station where there are several tube style sections of platform is Mansion House. Its small but the western end of the platforms have tube style arched tunnels. My question, btw is in connection with a modelling project - a station where one end is open air and the other end is in tube tunnels (in a hill). I suppose almost what stations such as Kensal Green, Hendon Central or even the new Hounslow West could have been like. Its early days, I am still working things out and I only have limited time so progress will be slow.
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