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Post by theblackferret on Aug 15, 2022 20:29:18 GMT
As far as I remember,London & Greater London was hardly affected by the 1988-90 recession vide house prices.
Wasn't that also around the time that Tube passenger usage started to increase again? Including on the Victoria Line?
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 13, 2022 11:07:05 GMT
Or perhaps a new staff uniform first would be more sensible-that would be fascinating. Would it be worth it? Uniform wearing seems a thing of the past... Thing is, if Mr Geiger's new range is anything to go by, staff might just be encouraged to wear something distinctive, especially if it's provided free of charge and is a staff-only range. All that would be needed for Mr Geiger would be to ensure his logo is displayed as prominently as TfL's as a thank-you for his input.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 12, 2022 21:03:03 GMT
There's not a lot you can say about this.
Wonder if they will ask Mr Geiger to design a tube station next? Or perhaps a new staff uniform first would be more sensible-that would be fascinating.
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 17, 2022 19:41:34 GMT
If you mean this video, it looks like the Stockholm T-Bana to me. Thanks-that's not ruined my evening,it's just explained why the fellas n' dolly birds look totally bemused-clearly unfamiliar with ocarina solos!
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 17, 2022 18:54:17 GMT
Just caught a video on Freeview 65, the program-That's 60's- & the Troggs miming to their classic Wild Thing, complete with ocarina solo to boot, on a Tube platform, complete with fellas n' dolly birds watching the group perform, while a couple of flustered LT staff try to service the two Tube trains that come in behind the swinging London crowd & disgorge passengers. Fascinating!! What do you think the chances of recreating that on its' diamond jubilee in 4 years time might be?? Does anybody know where it was filmed-two trains arriving in quick succession doesn't suggest Aldwych, especially as they then moved on to the next stop, but if anybody knows, I'm sure someone here does.
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 2, 2022 20:41:21 GMT
Going back to Chris M's original request, I'd suggest any new line is still going to have to go through the Central Area & preferably the West End as well.
So, diagrammatically, it might look like:
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Sorry that's not more state-of-the-art, but going on from that, missing (possibly in a perfect world only) from the Underground are a NW-SE Connection, ditto NE-SW & one right through the middle top to bottom.
Can't comment on the viability of any of these but NW-SE, say Cricklewood to Bromley, NE-SW, say Chingford to Twickenham & Centralish Cheshunt to Croydon.
That's rough & ready & if none of that's realistic, fine;I've chosen those names as places without a present Tube station to run with the idea of new lines bringing new places on to the Tube-as per Reading & Thamesmead.
If & only if the whole package were realistic, then add a loop between Croydon & Bromley, because it's difficult to think of two bigger places in South London which, from a connectivity point of view, might as well be on Phobos & DEmos respectively.
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 2, 2022 11:14:33 GMT
Can't comment on the conjecture re population figures, but that will have been fact-checked independently. If someone emails the production company (Brown Bob Productions) who run all that sort of thing, there'll prob be a source to ref. re: siding. very interesting. The siding's purpose was explained to me and indeed a few other of this forum's members on a site tour we did a few years ago, hosted IIRC by a couple of people who seemed like they were very familiar with its purpose. I can't recall who that person/people was but maybe Jarley or Paul can? They're probably on here, too. I am pleased to see that criticism of the show from this forum has largely been based around single shots where maybe things have had to be approximated (because of access etc, as Jarley notes) as stand-ins that look effectively identical for production necessity, rather than the usual sort of comment one might see on other rail-related TV e.g. "it's too generic" or "it's all the obvious stuff" or "we've seen it all before". The scripts are pored over by a number of professionals or experts in the field and indeed info is often sought from across the TfL org. Plus there are several of us on the production who are train-telly-nitpickers ourselves... after all, a desire for greater accuracy is one of the things that drove me to start conversations about doing a series on architecture wot the railways built, several years back. I always do enjoy reading feedback. Well, almost always Cheers Think the overall series has been very good again. On the assumption District Dave's didn't commission it( ), it's a decent balance between what a lot of site members knew and what only a very few were aware of. Siddy comes from a country without railways and is therefore inquisitive enough to try & bring out the historical background behind what she's currently looking at. That means she brings another sort of enthusiasm to Tim's on to the show and it works,as simple as that.
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 1, 2022 21:55:53 GMT
Holborn - Aldwych - Waterloo is probably still in those Acton archives. As we know, our Prime Minister and former Mayor is very keen on automated unstaffed trains. Building the Waterloo extension would create a short service that could be used for automation trials without negatively affecting any other (much busier) service. For added benefit the extension could reach Victoria as then there would be a proper railway link between Waterloo and Victoria stations (much better than Clapham Junction and / or buses) and extended at the north to Farringdon for Thameslink and Crossrail / Elizabeth lines. Could also go to Paddington to create a decent link between there & Victoria, which there most certainly is not at present, and maybe also reuse the original Fleet Line idea from Aldwych to Fenchurch Street via Ludgate Circus(which still needs a station). Would be best as a new line & could be used to take some pressures off the Central area without slinging thousands more in from the outskirts. Sorry if that's made a Meccano of it, but it still may make sense in providing something that isn't there all down the line.
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Post by theblackferret on May 9, 2022 10:46:59 GMT
Good programme, errors or not.
Showed the folly of not taking the original Fleet Line part 2 through Ludgate Circus & Aldwych as well as the eventual Jubilee extension, which they, as apolitical presenters quite correctly didn't pursue.
Enjoyed discovering the 2 City & South London tiling eras hidden away at Oval-never knew about that. Pity the Dome architect didn't get a name-check, as it's the only example left of a complete T Phillips Figgis build, but then the programme wasn't solely for my benefit anyway.
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 20, 2022 10:50:24 GMT
I think the Central Line, out around Roding Valley & Buckhurst Hill, has had an occasional deer on the line, though you're more likely to see them line-side, thank goodness.
The Richmond end of the District, from memory, isn't near to the resident herds around Richmond Park, but someone else may know better, and whether or not any of them have oysters!
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 2, 2022 10:49:56 GMT
The Uxbridge branch was authorised in 1899 & the ubiquitous Uxbridge & Rickmansworth Railway, which had gone through 11 acts of Parliament from 1863 onwards, wasn't formally & finally abandoned until 1901.
That latter scheme immediately mutated into a number of other proposals married to the 1896 Light Railways Act, so it's not impossible the apparent extra tracks etc at Ruislip may have had something to do with anticipated future developments.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 29, 2021 22:34:17 GMT
I’m developing a short film set in a 60’s era Routemaster. The plot can be described as a spy story set in post-war London, at the rise of the Cold War. So I was wondering if there are any interesting public stories about espionage happening on public transport. I am aware of several stories happening on bus route 11 during WW2. Also, what personnel would work on a bus. I take a driver and a conductor? Would the conductor always be at the rear entrance of the bus doing their job? Thanks! Slight variation-on trolleybuses there used to be fare stage fares under a glass case by the seat nearest the conductor's platform, usually on the right as you entered the lower deck-I think they had them, or route maps on Routemasters as well, but can't be sure. I think these may have been changed by inspectors only,because the cabinet was locked. For your story,might be interesting if microdots were planted in the fare data?
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 8, 2021 14:34:18 GMT
Also worth bearing in mind that in the past people were allowed to smoke on the Underground. Not in the recent historical past that the painting's figures allude to, but well within living memory & from my distant youth(ie when dinosaurs walked the Earth ,until the publication of the Royal College of Surgeons report on it was published(1962),about 70% of people smoked,and I can remember the odd journey by Tube on Saturdays to football & even Sundays window-shopping to Oxford St. with smoke-filled carriages and misty platforms, until the train entered.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 24, 2021 11:49:27 GMT
Last of the series yesterday.
Enjoyable, but thought they might have covered the original plan for a deep-level line from before the war on the Clapham South shelters to give it a full Tube railway context.
Good to see all that Moorgate had to offer,too-wonder if the Greathead Shield still works? And whether in 2121, there'll be similar excitement at TfL tours around the abandoned Crossrail project.
Hope we don't have to wait as long for another series, though!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 17, 2021 9:25:06 GMT
Tonight's episode really interested me having worked at Aldgate East over the years. The keys for ST Mary's were kept here and in my day the entrance was a doorway at a petrol station on the Whitechapel Road. I knew what the hooks were for in the ceiling. The reason for moving the station was said for longer trains, but they were already many 8 car trains and they fouled the junctions at Aldgate while waiting to enter the original Aldgate East eastbound and the rear of westbound trains would still be in the platform waiting to cross the Aldgate junctions to either Tower Hill or Liverpool Street.. The new station was a filthy station to work at, as was Mile End both just below the surface, because of tunnel dust and up to 1970 engineers steam locomotives standing waiting for the signal. It was a real revelation to discover there are still remnants of Aldgate East #1 as well as St Mary's. Never looked for these when on trains, unlike with St Mary's, so that's one back on the bucket list. The other part of last night's show & Oxford Circus-it was a great & pleasant surprise about the tiling on the former Bakerloo spiral staircase there-fantastic condition. Pity the first station at Oxford Circus (Central Line) didn't have its' architect named on the show-Harry Bell Measures-though at least we know the facade is preserved as Grade II listed.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 11, 2021 9:48:32 GMT
It's a pity that the Euston Leslie Green building couldn't be saved (or at the very least the facade). It would make a nice addition to somewhere like the tramway museum at Crich or Beamish. Or one of the railway museums? I'm sure Leslie Green would like that, especially if it were used as a ticket-office!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 10, 2021 9:40:06 GMT
Programme #4 last night covered the parts of Euston other beers cannot reach & York Road Station.
Found it a real wind-up to be reminded that the white elephant vanity project HS2 caused a Leslie Green building to be needlessly demolished. Not the presenter's fault, mind you.
York Road looked ready to reopen, albeit they need to reinstate the platforms & lifts, with a few washes from a decent pressure hose.
Informative to learn this time:
-the neon colours seen in Tube adverts throughout the 1960's had only been patented as recently as 1957. -that the York Road signal frame was bodily rescued & not only still helps train signallers, but that there are still frames of a similar vintage working on the Met today.
Best bit was when Tim took a driver underneath the Northern Line at Euston-the guy has driven over those hidden bits at least 40,000 times in his 20+ years driving & couldn't believe just what was there-brilliant.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 10, 2021 9:23:28 GMT
It was decided that they came under the Motor Car Act of 1903, but not until many tramway operators were already running them on the same basis as trams. (I suppose they are technically 'off-limits' for this Forum) They were actually required to exhibit a registration number & pay the road fund licence (albeit at an advantageously low rate) from the 1921 Act onwards. The very few trolleys run before then, in Dundee & Leeds, simply had a fleet number, as trams always did. Going back to Tubes, I wonder if the East London Line had an enabling act raised? Probably, but it was converted from the Brunel's original foot-tunnel under the Thames to railway use, so others may know better.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 4, 2021 9:34:55 GMT
Interesting last night on Piccadilly Circus and all the disused parts. Highgate was good; I'll have to google earth it. I wanted more on the Passimeter as I worked in so many. Even LMS and it's stations Upney to Upminster nearly all had Passimeters when opened. There were no safes so you took the money usually in a cloth cash bag to the mess room where the safe was. Also struck me the passimeter would have made a great entrance porch to one's home,or a man-cave annexe in the garden for spare bits & pieces, or a craft room extension with a difference for Mrs tbf & co near the conservatory-the racks & pigeon-holes fit so many purposes. Nothing like as good as having them all back on the Tube, together with cash & ticket machines, would be, but I don't suppose it will ever happen. Once again missed the Leslie Green original buildings at The Circus,shame they couldn't have scale-modelled one in 1928 for Eros to've stood on after the reconstruction. Nice to be reminded about the bats at Highgate and to see Edwin Johnston's photograph-precious, and that's just his attitude!
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 30, 2021 16:34:36 GMT
It was Kings College whose property adjoined Aldwych station, not University College Indeed, I did not intend to denigrate Tim Dunn. The programme is interesting and his enthusiasm is obviously genuine. His rapport with co-presenter Siddy Holloway also comes over well. And I am learning new stuff - I didn't know that "Bull & Bush" now has the surface entrance it never got when it was originally built. Whether Lady Octavia Barnet's influence was beneficial I suppose depends on whether you wanted another Tube station (and lots of houses), or Hampstead Heath to be kept as it was. We would all have our own presentational styles if we were on TV, just as we thankfully have our individual posting styles here,variety's the word & thank goodness for it. I learnt new stuff too-on last week's-that the fabled spiral escalator wasn't just an urban legend, it existed and was installed at Caledonian Road on a trial basis. Thankfully, it was found guilty & swiftly removed. Perhaps Barking would have been a more appositely-named station in which to install it?
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 30, 2021 9:46:25 GMT
On the first programme vide Aldwych, in 1949, Modern Transport magazine proposed extending to Waterloo & then via a new intermediate station at Thames House (Millbank), extending this new Piccadilly branch through to Victoria, onward to Sloane Square & terminating at South Kensington. The Aldwych branch was also to be extended northwards (still Piccadilly) from Holborn to Euston via Russell Square. In 1957,LT had an enquiry called The Victoria Line,The Next Step, part of which examined resiting Aldwych platforms nearer Temple, with stairs to existing Aldwych lifts north end,escalators to Temple District platforms South End & thence over the river to Waterloo. As for the Bull & Bush programme, the externals in the Depot museum etc were more interesting, because it's difficult to breathe life into a station that never opened to passengers, whereas sitting in half of a clerestory-roofed Q stock, for example, was enthralling. Tim Dunn gets excited about nearly everything he presents-my rule of thumb is, has he or any other presenter left me better informed and/or wanting to know more about the subject? Yes, is the answer in both cases & Mrs tbf reckons her questions afterwards to me about it have gone up substantially as a result of Tim & Siddy's efforts-thanks, guys! Finally, personalities-I did find myself rather annoyed with Lady Bountiful(Octavia Barnett) for stopping Bull & Bush ever getting built, as that would have been another Leslie Green station to admire. Thanks, you daft old trout!
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 21, 2021 9:14:49 GMT
Best bits for me were the Holloway Road disused exit passageways, complete with Leslie Green tiling, or a very good imitation thereof and the buffers on the over-run tunnel at Aldwych.
The latter must be well over 100 years old & look as if they were originally installed last week.
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Post by theblackferret on Jun 17, 2021 8:59:38 GMT
No, the code for each service is different even if the terminal point is the same. The service depends on the calling pattern, not the end point, because the codes have to cater for intermediate journeys before any route converges with another one. The 3 Chenfords - from Chingford Cheshunt Enfield - would have each a seperate code. In which case, you could either indicate a short working (in this context) with lower case letters and/or strike-through & double-strike-through on it or even an over-score/under-score on the headcode(Southern Railway used this a lot & well into BR Southern Region days). Yes, any of this would be a bit more complicated, but not that much, and provided the strike-through or under/over-score effect can be rendered in Braille, it would not disadvantage any with sight disabilities.
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Post by theblackferret on Jun 16, 2021 10:01:29 GMT
I think the map & the train-destination indication are two separate problems. Adding more colours to the LO Map, or the Tube map, is going to make it too busy for sure & will cause confusion. All you need to do with a map is find your starting & finishing stations & go from there. All you need is a few indicator boards, chalk boards to supplement if needed, to reinforce what should be on the timetables as well as on the front of trains with regard to the codes used. And if that code is as simple as A1,B1 as appropriate, everyone knows what they're doing; because you can use a different number for branches off a particular mainline, or a different code for short workings. Map and destination are indeed different subjects. IMHO I'd use the system per Paris RER - that extends the A1 B1 use into [mostly] pronouncable 4 letter words. For those who are unware, each Paris RER service pattern _ including those in opposite directions between the same stations pairs _ has a unique 4 letter string. Short workings have different strings to long workings. They are known as "les codes missions des trains"; I can't find a reliable authoritative single source for every code _ but there are a lot (a lot!) of web sites that list some of them often on a line by line basis. There is some decoding that can be done with them, the letters are not all random. I don't necessarily agree the four letters do need to be decodable _ "trainspotter" OCD may require this, the general public does not _ but what they do need to be is unique, distinct, pronouncable, and memorable.Not even related to any destination, just memorable. That is the key, 4 letters writ large _ large for those with restricted vision and audibly clearly distinct for those with none. Even the Braille code of just four letters is short and simple (_ foot sensitive platform Braille markings maybe ?) It would be nice if when pronounced backwards it means the opposite service direction, so long as it does not impair it's clarity. For example GOBA and ABOG might work for Gospel Oak > Barking and v.v. and pretty clear, but if you take the Chenfords, you probably don't want CHIN and CHES for Down trains to Chingford and Cheshunt as they both begin with ch so not distinct enough for the hard of hearing, and for Ups (say) INCH and SECH again are both ..ch. ((And you absolutely can not have the first letter and last three letters of one of these! ))
New Cross and New Cross Gate definitely need clear seperation.
Having some clear and distinct but not necessarily related to the route stations would be better. To put them on the map, you just put them next to the relevant end point stations. Not suggesting on the "tube" map or "London connections" map, too much clutter, but certainly on car maps, station signage. Keep the ornage colour, but maybe in a detailed LO sans LU map parallel lines connecting end codes. A full station index would list every code calling at that station. I'm sure we could have a whole raft of 4 letter word (!) suggestions, and I can see the scope for comedians here, but maybe some with more spare time than I have could come up with an appropriate list _ but remember _ unique, clear, distinct, pronouncable, memorable. OK you could argue these are like bus route numbers, but route numbers are just that, a mass of numbers, and not that easily remembered. Despite me being a London commuter for years, I seldom use buses, and even when I have to I can never remember what route number goes where, I have to look them up each time. (521 is the only one I can remember and I don't really know how that sticks). The only bus (sorry for the swear word,folks!) routes I remember are the ones I caught as a youngster,12,36,36a,36b,36c & 163. And as my regular use of them ended around 1963, it could be that getting on a 36 at Camberwell Green would now end up in Cairo & not Cricklewood these days! CH problems can be solved by making it EZCH & FCHI on down trains. Up trains don't matter, because they're going to a terminus, for which the code is going to be on several services. It's a good idea, though, if we take due care about the nomenclature of any downs or ups from Clapham-The Common can be COMM, the Junction JUNC or JNCT of course.
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Post by theblackferret on Apr 8, 2021 21:22:29 GMT
As a result of a figure quoted in the "Clapham narrow platforms " thread, I wondered how much the LU system is worth (in purely monetary terms). To put it another way, how much would it cost to build it from scratch, today. (Ignoring the cost of land acquisition.) Maybe someone here has the knowledge to come up with a sensible guess, but I imagine it would be in the hundreds or billions region. I'd guess to build it from scratch ignoring land acquisition would cost £1.5-2bn each for the District,Central,Northern,Met & Piccadilly Lines and £1-1.5 bn for the combined Bakerloo/Jubilee complex. All of those being what TfL now operates, not what's been sheared off, like Bakerloo to Watford. W & C & Victoria 500-750 million apiece & possibly 1 bn for Victoria because of the junction complexities on it. DLR is not counted, as we have modern figures for what it cost & significant private financing assisting. So, before we talk about step-free access & PED's, I would guess at least £9-10 billion.
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 30, 2021 21:26:16 GMT
Came across this today: don’t recall having seen it before. Annie Lennox in the days of coloured vinyls being the highlight of her career. Blimey!
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 21, 2021 12:11:48 GMT
Never noticed before, but doesn't the GT3 have very sad eyes? And a rather resigned mouth?
Must be anticipating Beeching before he was even summoned by Marples. There's an excellent metaphor in your modelling-fine artistic touch.
Hope Jago Peters didn't suffer from the cold down there, either.
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 18, 2021 10:08:56 GMT
Look all around you & ye shall see his works, as somebody else once said.
Very true about any man of vision and definitely about District Dave.
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 25, 2021 9:51:42 GMT
burkitt Intriguing find & I like the look of your books, too! Definitely the right background.
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Post by theblackferret on Jan 17, 2021 22:15:44 GMT
There was still a goods service at Mill Hill The Hale until 29.2.64, so this again indicates BR ownership, especially as the second rail laid to Edgware in the war was taken up in the 1950's.
Additionally, the line to Alexandra Palace was closed in 1954, after consultation with the TUCC (Transport Users Consultative Committee, or chocolate fireguard to most rail people!!), and that was statutory with BR lines, not London Transport.
I think these two bits were never owned by LT at all-used by them,another matter.
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