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Post by q8 on May 9, 2005 16:52:41 GMT
Gents, if a Chiltern train gets stuck between Rickmansworth and Amersham with no power and has a Met train behind him is the Met allowed to give him a push out?
I ask this as as I have come across a thing in my notes from years ago about giving a north London train a shove with a District at Kew Bridge (I'll post the story if anyone is interested)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2005 17:03:41 GMT
I ask this as as I have come across a thing in my notes from years ago about giving a north London train a shove with a District at Kew Bridge (I'll post the story if anyone is interested) Would be very interested to see this story - nowadays we are told that our (C and D) stock is completely incompatible with North London line stock. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2005 17:36:19 GMT
Gents, if a Chiltern train gets stuck between Rickmansworth and Amersham with no power and has a Met train behind him is the Met allowed to give him a push out? Depends on whether an adapter to mate a Wedglock to a BREL 16X exists and can be had from either the trains, the nearest station or some AET on a motorbike  Post your story anyway Q8  |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 9, 2005 18:20:18 GMT
I too would be intertested in the story!
We are told these days that if the LUL train needs a shove, and the only train available isn't one of our's, it's job for the emergency response unit. I would therefore assume the same applies in reverse.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2005 19:14:09 GMT
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 9, 2005 19:20:57 GMT
Depends on whether an adapter to mate a Wedglock to a BREL 16X exists and can be had from either the trains, the nearest station or some AET on a motorbike Post your story anyway Q8 Why would an AET get involved? The only time we get interested in trains is if they fail to shunt our track circuits or start snowing on our blockjoints (metal dust from new wheelsets). |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2005 20:05:31 GMT
Surely you'd be needed if the pushout was on points?  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 9, 2005 22:20:13 GMT
Surely you'd be needed if the pushout was on points? Possibly if the route was to remain held after a long train move, you may need to attend to release the locking manually but that's big shut-down time. If the scenario Q8 described were to be used all it would need is for the signalman to take a release after the first train had gone through, if the signal was still approach locked. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2005 22:37:59 GMT
plus the air would have to come off the frame because as soon as the delta circuit picked up the route would try and go back
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Post by q8 on May 10, 2005 5:34:16 GMT
If the scenario Q8 described were to be used all it would need is for the signalman to take a release after the first train had gone through, if the signal was still approach locked.
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Luckily that did not have to be done when my incident occurred as Richmond was still mechanically signalled with semaphores and rodding and all that. There were no track circuits but there were fouling bars. One thing we did have to do though during the push out was cut out the front trip. I also seem to recall that at that time NL trains had tripcocks too but I may be out on that.
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Post by citysig on May 10, 2005 10:02:06 GMT
I've dealt with a few push-outs in my time and have never required the services of an AET. If the route is required to be reselected to allow unsecuring of the route, then there is a tried and tested (many thousands of times a day) procedure to getting the points to re-throw.
Quite often, the very nature of the length of a long train means that although the front of the train may satisfy such things as delta circuits, the rear of the train will still effectively lock the route. To the signalling system it is as if the train has not fully berthed in a platform or siding. Routes should not obviously attempt to go back until a train has berthed during normal working, and a long train makes little difference to this.
Numerous local procedures are in place to deal with long trains, with securing of routes etc. and these should not be confused with the way in which the signalling actually handles the train.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 10, 2005 20:03:05 GMT
Citysig has come up with a thought that crossed my mind too - if it's a long train the lever will already be on the lock, but even if the delta is operated as long as the back of the train is still in the backlock the lock will be down and the lever will never get the second puff.
As for going to site, I never had to deal with a long train pushout so I can only make an uneducated guess. I daresay if the backlock tracks were up but (for example) a wrong road trainstop were still released then it would be lock lifting time, which is what I was hinting at originally.
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Post by citysig on May 10, 2005 20:08:35 GMT
As far as the areas I have controlled, a simple release will get you any backlock required. Sometimes not even this is needed. Hammersmith (Met) for example is part-equipped for long trains. You get half the backlock through the normal signalling. Shame they didn't go the whole way as you still need a release for the other half, but then long trains aren't a daily occurance (thankfully ;D).
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