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Post by modeng2000 on May 6, 2022 9:12:53 GMT
last night's programme, the first of the new series was really interesting. If the rest are like this it will be another great set of programmes.
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Post by seaeagle on May 6, 2022 11:16:11 GMT
It's not a bad show, unfortunately there are a few things that are incorrect, as an example when Siddy climbs back onto the platform at Kennington after walking around the loop, the platform is on the wrong side !!!
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Post by 100andthirty on May 6, 2022 11:49:03 GMT
I have yet to see any show involving the railway- even those, like this one which is focussed on the railway - where the continuity is perfect. My guess is that the budget is so tight that if they "forget" to take a particular shot, there in no money to go back and film it again
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 15:34:38 GMT
Kennington is not the only turning loop what about the T4 loop?
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Post by MoreToJack on May 6, 2022 16:11:42 GMT
I have yet to see any show involving the railway- even those, like this one which is focussed on the railway where the continuity is perfect. My guess is that the budget is so tight that if they "forget" to take a particular shot, there in no money to go back and film it again It’s not so much the budget, more the access. Most of the overnight shoots were arranged around other possessions and staff availability, which are planned quite far in advance. Sometimes it also simply isn’t possible, for whatever reason, to get the required shot. Whilst not perfect, this is by far the best of the many series on the Tube over the years. Whilst I should acknowledge that I appear in it, the production team have worked very hard to create a great finished product - my honest opinion, not biased by any appearances or otherwise. We should also remember that some of those involved in the production may or may not be members of this forum, and read comments presented.
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Post by 100andthirty on May 6, 2022 16:22:27 GMT
I have yet to see any show involving the railway- even those, like this one which is focussed on the railway where the continuity is perfect. My guess is that the budget is so tight that if they "forget" to take a particular shot, there in no money to go back and film it again It’s not so much the budget, more the access. Most of the overnight shoots were arranged around other possessions and staff availability, which are planned quite far in advance. Sometimes it also simply isn’t possible, for whatever reason, to get the required shot. Whilst not perfect, this is by far the best of the many series on the Tube over the years. Whilst I should acknowledge that I appear in it, the production team have worked very hard to create a great finished product - my honest opinion, not biased by any appearances or otherwise. We should also remember that some of those involved in the production may or may not be members of this forum, and read comments presented.MoreToJack - I agree with your sentiment. I was making the point as an observation, not to be critical and the odd lapse does nothing to spoil my enjoyment of the show. I was delighted to hear that it is the Yesterday channel's most viewed original production; well deserved.
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Post by straphanger on May 7, 2022 12:05:42 GMT
Possibly over-simplistic but it seems to me that this is a programme made by people who like the Underground as opposed to people who like making programmes. They know what might interest the viewer and they show it, instead of making a programme about what they can gain access to.
There's probably room for at least one "making of..." programme as well.
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Post by jimbo on May 8, 2022 19:34:16 GMT
It's not a bad show, unfortunately there are a few things that are incorrect, as an example when Siddy climbs back onto the platform at Kennington after walking around the loop, the platform is on the wrong side !!! I got the impression that Siddy took a rear cab ride around the loop from southbound to northbound, only showing the northbound connection from Battersea. She then walked in reverse to look at that connection, and then continued around the loop to arrive back on the southbound platform, which was unfortunately said to be the northbound one.
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Post by theblackferret on May 9, 2022 10:46:59 GMT
Good programme, errors or not.
Showed the folly of not taking the original Fleet Line part 2 through Ludgate Circus & Aldwych as well as the eventual Jubilee extension, which they, as apolitical presenters quite correctly didn't pursue.
Enjoyed discovering the 2 City & South London tiling eras hidden away at Oval-never knew about that. Pity the Dome architect didn't get a name-check, as it's the only example left of a complete T Phillips Figgis build, but then the programme wasn't solely for my benefit anyway.
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Post by rapidtransitman on May 16, 2022 17:41:25 GMT
Showed the folly of not taking the original Fleet Line part 2 through Ludgate Circus & Aldwych as well as the eventual Jubilee extension, which they, as apolitical presenters quite correctly didn't pursue. There's a detailed history of Phase 1 of the Fleet Tube: www.londonreconnections.com/2015/diving-into-the-fleet-a-look-at-londons-lost-tube/, looking at the design decisions at Ludgate Circus, and the plans for an interchange at Aldwych.
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Post by revupminster on Jun 20, 2022 16:42:56 GMT
Just watched the latest episode which featured a plan of possible future lines which included an embryo concept of Crossrail among many other extensions. The only one to be acted on was the completion of the Central Line extensions due to London's population dropping from 8 million to 5 million after the war; something I never realised. The country was also broke. The population never recovered to 8 million until the 1980s.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 20, 2022 21:25:21 GMT
Of course the Central Line was a prewar scheme which was already near complete, and the western stations were only finished properly through the 50s.
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Post by d7666 on Jun 20, 2022 21:31:53 GMT
due to London's population dropping from 8 million to 5 million after the war; something I never realised. The country was also broke. The population never recovered to 8 million until the 1980s. I looked into that too. Methinks there is an element of "lies, damned lies, and statistics" here, and it may be a case of the basis of calculation has changed over time, or a particular defined stat had been selected to suit the need. But no graph I can find shows it dipping as low as 5 m, and the dip that did occur (to below 7 m) troughed there in 1970s, which is hardly a period I would use the term "after the war" for *** There are several on line sites like this one but similar figures; this one just happens to be clear to read : www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/population-over-time/*** i.e. to mean after WW2; unless they meant some other war, which would be a really odd reference point.
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Post by revupminster on Jun 21, 2022 5:34:54 GMT
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Post by d7666 on Jun 21, 2022 16:21:53 GMT
Which agrees with no dip as low as 5 m.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 26, 2022 5:16:35 GMT
I have just viewed the episode on Kings Cross which provides an interesting tour of the non-public parts of this intricate station. One part jarred with me when they visited a supposedly secret freight siding to the west of the Circle Line platforms, reportedly provided to remove spoil from works within the station during the 1930s relocation of the platforms. (at 13:40 link ) I had given this little thought before, but originally the Met platforms were alongside the now abandoned Thameslink ones, so the current station site would have contained a plain cut-and-cover double-track running tunnel, now the circulating area between the platforms. During construction of the current station, trains must have continued along this route until diverted to the current outer platforms. The original track location would not therefore have been available for a siding until the spoil had already been removed to allow diversion of the running lines. The eastbound (outer rail) track was actually diverted into an existing City Widened Lines tunnel, apparently constructed under St. Pancras forecourt with the possibility of extending the CWL towards Euston at some stage. This had been used for a relief road in the 1920s to allow some eastbound Metropolitan Line trains to transfer to the CWL towards Moorgate, although they returned via a crossover west of Farringdon to their native line. This practice ceased to allow the current arrangement to be introduced. Any spoil removed would therefore have been primarily from the new westbound (inner rail) platform. I believe that the original scheme was to retain one of the legacy through roads to reverse some Metropolitan Line trains extended from Baker Street, but this never happened. The works were delayed by the start of World War II, and then hurriedly completed due to bomb damage to the former station to the east. The retained reversing road was shortened to enlarge the interchange concourse as part of the Victoria Line modifications to the station, and further shortened to provide the more recent western ticket hall, leaving only the short spur seen in the programme.
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Post by stapler on Jun 29, 2022 17:27:14 GMT
But of course the Met area went out well beyond its present extent; it was any parish any part of which was within 15 miles of Charing+, so included places like Waltham Abbey, Loughton, Ewell, and Thames Ditton, now for 22 years firmly in the shire counties. And as for the LPTB area.... West Ham and East Ham, though of course notionally in geographic Essex, were independent county boroughs - West since 1888 and East since 1915- and neither's arms appear in the splendidly third-reichy 1938 county hall at Chelmsford...
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Post by timbo on Jul 2, 2022 10:08:45 GMT
Can't comment on the conjecture re population figures, but that will have been fact-checked independently. If someone emails the production company (Brown Bob Productions) who run all that sort of thing, there'll prob be a source to ref. re: siding. very interesting. The siding's purpose was explained to me and indeed a few other of this forum's members on a site tour we did a few years ago, hosted IIRC by a couple of people who seemed like they were very familiar with its purpose. I can't recall who that person/people was but maybe Jarley or Paul can? They're probably on here, too. I am pleased to see that criticism of the show from this forum has largely been based around single shots where maybe things have had to be approximated (because of access etc, as Jarley notes) as stand-ins that look effectively identical for production necessity, rather than the usual sort of comment one might see on other rail-related TV e.g. "it's too generic" or "it's all the obvious stuff" or "we've seen it all before". The scripts are pored over by a number of professionals or experts in the field and indeed info is often sought from across the TfL org. Plus there are several of us on the production who are train-telly-nitpickers ourselves... after all, a desire for greater accuracy is one of the things that drove me to start conversations about doing a series on architecture wot the railways built, several years back. I always do enjoy reading feedback. Well, almost always Cheers
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 2, 2022 11:14:33 GMT
Can't comment on the conjecture re population figures, but that will have been fact-checked independently. If someone emails the production company (Brown Bob Productions) who run all that sort of thing, there'll prob be a source to ref. re: siding. very interesting. The siding's purpose was explained to me and indeed a few other of this forum's members on a site tour we did a few years ago, hosted IIRC by a couple of people who seemed like they were very familiar with its purpose. I can't recall who that person/people was but maybe Jarley or Paul can? They're probably on here, too. I am pleased to see that criticism of the show from this forum has largely been based around single shots where maybe things have had to be approximated (because of access etc, as Jarley notes) as stand-ins that look effectively identical for production necessity, rather than the usual sort of comment one might see on other rail-related TV e.g. "it's too generic" or "it's all the obvious stuff" or "we've seen it all before". The scripts are pored over by a number of professionals or experts in the field and indeed info is often sought from across the TfL org. Plus there are several of us on the production who are train-telly-nitpickers ourselves... after all, a desire for greater accuracy is one of the things that drove me to start conversations about doing a series on architecture wot the railways built, several years back. I always do enjoy reading feedback. Well, almost always Cheers Think the overall series has been very good again. On the assumption District Dave's didn't commission it( ), it's a decent balance between what a lot of site members knew and what only a very few were aware of. Siddy comes from a country without railways and is therefore inquisitive enough to try & bring out the historical background behind what she's currently looking at. That means she brings another sort of enthusiasm to Tim's on to the show and it works,as simple as that.
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jul 2, 2022 18:10:49 GMT
re: siding. very interesting. The siding's purpose was explained to me and indeed a few other of this forum's members on a site tour we did a few years ago, hosted IIRC by a couple of people who seemed like they were very familiar with its purpose. I can't recall who that person/people was but maybe Jarley or Paul can? They're probably on here, too. One of the Fennell report recommendations (Recommendation 142) was an additional subway between the sub-surface platforms and the tube platforms; the siding was installed with a crossover operated by local switches (often referred to as hand worked but not strictly so) so that a couple of wagons could be loaded with spoil and removed by battery locos overnight. It's doubtful if the siding was ever used for its intended purpose (certainly the subway wasn't built and a secondary exit to St Pancras provided in 2005/6 more or less met the recommendation of the report), and the siding was disconnected and partially removed in January 2015.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 2, 2022 22:28:01 GMT
My notes show that there was concern about dealing with London's population growth around ten years back.
The 2011 London Plan forecast that by 2031 there could be 1.2 million more Londoners, taking the “population up to a level experienced only in the 1930s, when population density in the overcrowded innermost London boroughs was far higher than it will ever be again, and when travel-to-work distances were shorter and less dependent on rapid transit public transport.”
A draft of the London Infrastructure Plan was released for consultation on 30 July 2014. This ambitious plan considered the infrastructure investment required to meet demand over more than a third of a century. London's population was said to be already near to its previous peak of 1939, and was then forecast to continue to grow by over a third to 2050.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 3, 2022 4:49:56 GMT
Just watched the latest episode which featured a plan of possible future lines which included an embryo concept of Crossrail among many other extensions. The only one to be acted on was the completion of the Central Line extensions due to London's population dropping from 8 million to 5 million after the war; something I never realised. The country was also broke. The population never recovered to 8 million until the 1980s. I agree, it was interesting to see the “plan of possible future lines which included an embryo concept of Crossrail among many other extensions”. There were many versions of these plans drawn up during and soon after the war, summarised in the May 2022 edition of Underground News by Eric Stuart, although the drawing featured in the programme did not feature in that article. It reminded me of the style of map included with some of those reports. These so-called crayonistas dreamed of a post-War world where anything was possible, and austerity would be at an end, but that would take a further twenty years if it ever did arrive! With the quantity of lines proposed in each report, and the variety between them, it is of little surprise that later schemes could trace similar proposals somewhere in the many reports.
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Jul 3, 2022 6:56:29 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 3, 2022 7:43:05 GMT
Only in the UK of course which wouldn’t help jimbo!
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Post by jimbo on Jul 3, 2022 9:44:26 GMT
Only in the UK of course which wouldn’t help jimbo ! But available with a secure Virtual Private Network (VPN) elsewhere! Available as part of Norton anti-virus program and others.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 5, 2022 20:34:17 GMT
re: siding. very interesting. The siding's purpose was explained to me and indeed a few other of this forum's members on a site tour we did a few years ago, hosted IIRC by a couple of people who seemed like they were very familiar with its purpose. I can't recall who that person/people was but maybe Jarley or Paul can? They're probably on here, too. One of the Fennell report recommendations (Recommendation 142) was an additional subway between the sub-surface platforms and the tube platforms; the siding was installed with a crossover operated by local switches (often referred to as hand worked but not strictly so) so that a couple of wagons could be loaded with spoil and removed by battery locos overnight. It's doubtful if the siding was ever used for its intended purpose (certainly the subway wasn't built and a secondary exit to St Pancras provided in 2005/6 more or less met the recommendation of the report), and the siding was disconnected and partially removed in January 2015. Thanks for this. So the siding featured was post 1987 fire. The original uncompleted bay road is shown unsignalled by Harsig link in 1958. So it must have been lifted some time later. This fits with my recollection that I only became aware of a siding in that area around that time, but always assumed it was the remainder of the original unsignalled road.
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Post by timbo on Jul 10, 2022 1:44:40 GMT
re: siding. very interesting. The siding's purpose was explained to me and indeed a few other of this forum's members on a site tour we did a few years ago, hosted IIRC by a couple of people who seemed like they were very familiar with its purpose. I can't recall who that person/people was but maybe Jarley or Paul can? They're probably on here, too. One of the Fennell report recommendations (Recommendation 142) was an additional subway between the sub-surface platforms and the tube platforms; the siding was installed with a crossover operated by local switches (often referred to as hand worked but not strictly so) so that a couple of wagons could be loaded with spoil and removed by battery locos overnight. It's doubtful if the siding was ever used for its intended purpose (certainly the subway wasn't built and a secondary exit to St Pancras provided in 2005/6 more or less met the recommendation of the report), and the siding was disconnected and partially removed in January 2015. Great - so the info relayed in the programme was correct.
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Post by stapler on Jul 10, 2022 8:45:45 GMT
Great - so the info relayed in the programme was correct. It generally is, which is refreshing.... I am a professional nit-picker with TV programmes, currently doing the same with the re-run of Downton Abbey, but this one has been excellent.
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Post by timbo on Jun 27, 2023 2:04:14 GMT
Hullo. You may be pleased to learn that we have managed to enable free access to the following LT locations, for the entire UK population as long as they have access to the web or possess a TV with a TV licence. Yes, "Secrets of the London Underground" is back for a third series, bringing more people to the things that you and I have adored for so long It starts on Tuesday 4th July (i think 8pm) and each of the ten episodes runs for an hour. It is on the Yesterday channel (freeview etc) but if you'd like it in HD, you may care to enjoy it on the UKTV website or app free streaming service. The ace Ian Mansfield has popped a summary of our first few eps online; so our "A" locations this series are (unhelpfully these are NOT the transmission date orders tho) - camden town inc shelters
- south ken inc the trial tunnels for the aborted east west express route
- acton works inc traverser and bunker / former model railway
- ashfield house sims, model railway etc
- green park & dover st
- shepherd's bush
- leicester square
- british museum (it's taken us 2 years to get access)
- heathrow
- archway
Then there are the 10 places that Mrs Sid Holloway does a tour of (in which i am sometimes actually there but off camera; technically my day off) and then a good 10 or 15 stories with me about things like Art on the Underground, Morden station gardens, Labyrinth, Q stock resto, met tank at covvy g, etc. The fact checking as ever was diligent as can possibly be - paid LTM research staff, me, TfL, tv company, all run our checks as professionals in our fields. But then i am sure someone will find something that someone says to contest like telling me that it's car not carriage or loco not train or turnout not points or... etc.. TBH, no idea why they feel compelled to tell me, or expect me to do about it... ;-) - But if you do have constructive feedback, then please do let me know. Continuty we work on diligently - it is important to us all, but you must remember that we have to film out of sequence in order to fit operational needs and not to distract staff or service, and sometimes we may have to insert a best-fit shot. But if a platform being shown on the wrong side is all there Finally. One of the things I didn't really expect about fronting TV programmes is that people often now strike up conversations in the street, or pub, or station etc unnannounced. And that it's really nice* when it does happen: it happens with my things probably more than for other folk because people know that this stuff was my life long before I grabbed a production company to say "hey, come look at this; we can show people and do it in ways that others wouldn't", and that it'll be my life long after the TV cameras and audiences get bored and move on. I'll tell yer this, even with all my years as a marketing communications professional I never would have expected the breadth of audience type and depth of interest for the London Underground across the UK. It means that people, outside the trad enthusiast bubble, have an interest in the stories of the tube when given the right context. I get people every week telling me that they're now looking more closely at the tube heritage features, booking LTM trips, going to Acton or in the case of the lady of advanced years I met in north Wales on Sunday, going down to see the Elizabeth line stations because we've inspired them to do it. It might not be as all-consuming as it is for many of us who frequent District Dave forums, but the programme is, I am pleased to say, bringing in the people to the topics that hardcore enthusiasts already have books on. It is the gateway drug!
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Post by ted672 on Jun 27, 2023 10:56:46 GMT
I'm really looking forward to it, the programme has a good level of detail to interest casual viewers and still surprise some of us hardened enthusiasts (well, me anyway). I've watched the previous series as well as the LTM "Hidden London" videos, but having recently had two authorised cab rides on the Central line I was surprised how much I hadn't previously seen or noticed on past journeys. It was also interesting to see a train operator in action which I'm sure would be of interest to the show's viewers (worth a future episode on its own?)- TOs don't just sit and push buttons!
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