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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 12, 2020 22:30:48 GMT
I was recently involved in the deployment of TfL Rail staff to various locations during the Slough/Heathrow blockade and was pleased to see for myself MTR's CSA's put their training to good use in an "alien" environment.
The next project in the pipelines is the Heathrow/Uxbridge - Hammersmith/Hyde Park Corner blockade for the Picadilly line in February. My experience of replacement bus services during LU closures with the contract pink hi-vis (not travel ambassadors) is....awful.
I always wondered why more LU staff aren't drafted in on such days given, well, they are just leagues better and trained in how to deliver customer service.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 13, 2020 13:36:28 GMT
I was recently involved in the deployment of TfL Rail staff to various locations during the Slough/Heathrow blockade and was pleased to see for myself MTR's CSA's put their training to good use in an "alien" environment. The next project in the pipelines is the Heathrow/Uxbridge - Hammersmith/Hyde Park Corner blockade for the Picadilly line in February. My experience of replacement bus services during LU closures with the contract pink hi-vis (not travel ambassadors) is....awful. I always wondered why more LU staff aren't drafted in on such days given, well, they are just leagues better and trained in how to deliver customer service. More staff? From where? Stations are already reliant on staff doing overtime and unlike TfL Rail (and other mainline TOCs) station staff LU staff are subject to the safety critical regs so are limited as to the amount of hours/days they can work (apart from the CS2s). |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 13, 2020 14:18:45 GMT
I was recently involved in the deployment of TfL Rail staff to various locations during the Slough/Heathrow blockade and was pleased to see for myself MTR's CSA's put their training to good use in an "alien" environment. The next project in the pipelines is the Heathrow/Uxbridge - Hammersmith/Hyde Park Corner blockade for the Picadilly line in February. My experience of replacement bus services during LU closures with the contract pink hi-vis (not travel ambassadors) is....awful. I always wondered why more LU staff aren't drafted in on such days given, well, they are just leagues better and trained in how to deliver customer service. More staff? From where? Stations are already reliant on staff doing overtime and unlike TfL Rail (and other mainline TOCs) station staff LU staff are subject to the safety critical regs so are limited as to the amount of hours/days they can work (apart from the CS2s). Fair enough, I'd heard station staffing was in a dire state from talking to individuals on here but since I'm not part of the organisation, I only really started to get an insight when I started doing this sort of contingency planning affecting Heathrow. I was a bit taken aback when I saw how ropey staffing was for even "Gateway" stations where there are naturally more people travelling who aren't familiar with London's transport. I only started this thread because after travelling through Northwood-Watford-Chesham this weekend past, it confirmed to me that the the tailored announcements and hand written notices written by LU staff were miles better than any number of pink hi-vis (where ever the hell they were at). I just do not see the point in having the pink hi-vis show up at all. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 13, 2020 17:33:54 GMT
Now you’re thinking like an LUL staff member...!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jan 15, 2020 16:31:54 GMT
The pink hivis staff are supplied by a couple of agencies usually run by former LU/LT staff. It appears their use has declined recently with some operators supplying their own Customer Information Assistants (CIA).
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 3, 2020 0:32:25 GMT
Was supervising the Rail Replacement operation at Heathrow this weekend this time with some LU CSA's on hand for the duration and what a difference. Even though the bus service was ripped to shreds at certain points during the day, the staffing operation ran like clockwork.
The irony is that we had three times less in terms of feet on the ground compared to the bank holiday closure last year when somebody at TfL offices clearly just panicked and sent an army of the pink hi-vis down which was described by one of our Duty Operations Managers as "a decision from the cult of stupidity".
If only the staffing on LU stations could be sorted out so that this could be possible all the time instead of having to threaten to blacklist agency staff from certain areas of the Heathrow complex due to insufficient safety training to get our way.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 3, 2020 10:14:19 GMT
TfL's handling of replacement bus services is an absolute disgrace.
To give just one example of an incident I witnessed a while back:
The HC&C was having one of its unscheduled shutdowns, and a replacement bus was provided from Hammersmith towards Paddington.
I was on such as bus, as was an old man using calipers. (Yes, he got a seat.)
As the bus approached Wood lane, instead of following, as near as possible, the route of the HC&C, it veered off towards Shepherd's bush Central line.
Of course, the man with the calipers wanted to get off, but, even though the bus was frequently stopping for traffic, the driver would not open the doors. Other passengers began to remonstrate with him but he remained obdurate.
Now, it's probably not his fault as there's bound to be some 'elf and safety rule (although drivers do, frequently, let people off between stops if asked.)
So this poor chap was dragged way off course (As no doubt were many other passengers.)
Apart from TfL's inability to run a bus vaguely along the route of the train, at least if they'd actually stated where the bus was going, passengers for Shepherds Bush (and Wood lLne) could have caught a more appropriate bus.
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Post by countryman on Feb 3, 2020 14:04:43 GMT
TfL's handling of replacement bus services is an absolute disgrace. To give just one example of an incident I witnessed a while back: The HC&C was having one of its unscheduled shutdowns, and a replacement bus was provided from Hammersmith towards Paddington. I was on such as bus, as was an old man using calipers. (Yes, he got a seat.) As the bus approached Wood lane, instead of following, as near as possible, the route of the HC&C, it veered off towards Shepherd's bush Central line. Of course, the man with the calipers wanted to get off, but, even though the bus was frequently stopping for traffic, the driver would not open the doors. Other passengers began to remonstrate with him but he remained obdurate. Now, it's probably not his fault as there's bound to be some 'elf and safety rule (although drivers do, frequently, let people off between stops if asked.) So this poor chap was dragged way off course (As no doubt were many other passengers.) Apart from TfL's inability to run a bus vaguely along the route of the train, at least if they'd actually stated where the bus was going, passengers for Shepherds Bush (and Wood lLne) could have caught a more appropriate bus. To be fair, there is no decent route from Shepherd's Bush Green to Latimer Road via Wood Lane, so the route used is likely to be the closest that you can get to the H & C. There does seem to be a need for people wishing to go to Wood Green to be informed. It would also be useful if the buses stopped at Shepherd's Bush Central Line to give more options. There is a perfectly good 220 direct from Hammersmith to Wood Lane for those who need it, but the issue is whether passengers who had paid for the Underground would need to pay the bus fare. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 3, 2020 14:57:12 GMT
The Big Red Book says...
Apart from those situations drivers are not supposed to open the doors between stops and there are usually notices by the doors advertising that.
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Post by humbug on Feb 3, 2020 15:40:35 GMT
Many years ago, a bus driver opened the doors several metres away from the kerb, as I was negotiating a very heavy Moto Guzzi motorbike around it. I was forced to come to an immediate stop, but not before nearly flattening the person exiting the bus.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 3, 2020 18:06:36 GMT
Many years ago, a bus driver opened the doors several metres away from the kerb, as I was negotiating a very heavy Moto Guzzi motorbike around it. I was forced to come to an immediate stop, but not before nearly flattening the person exiting the bus. Yes, well they do that all the time, for many different reasons. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 3, 2020 18:13:01 GMT
The Big Red Book says... Apart from those situations drivers are not supposed to open the doors between stops and there are usually notices by the doors advertising that. Yes, but you are rather missing the point. The driver could have ameliorated TfL's incompetence, many would have, although it's his inalienable right to be a jobsworth if he so wishes. The actual crux of my assertion of TfL's woeful performance is that the made NO ATTEMPT WHATSOEVER to tell passengers that the bus would not be following the route of the cancelled trains. Even if it was just an announcement from the driver at the post office (as was), that the bus would be diverting from the train's route, people could have got off and used buses. |
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Post by sawb on Feb 3, 2020 22:00:52 GMT
The only operator who I've not had a problem with (as someone with mild cerebral palsy and registered blind) when it comes to rail replacement buses is Greater Anglia. If I know there's engineering work on my route home from somewhere and it's an event finishing on a Saturday, I'll stay until the Monday in most cases when trains have resumed, purely because disability assistance during rail replacement operations is just too patchy and there's too much of a risk of me being directed to the wrong bus and with a driver who will, in a significant number of cases, need his or her passengers to direct them
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 3, 2020 22:02:36 GMT
The Big Red Book lists the circumstances in which bus drivers are allowed to open the doors between stops and those circumstances do not appear to have existed in the situation. The bus driver had been given a route with specific stops and they cannot be faulted for doing as they had been instructed to do by management.
Clearly staff at Hammersmith and other stations should have been informing passengers of the route the bus would be taking but its not the drivers fault if that information was not passed on.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 3, 2020 22:41:28 GMT
Yes, the failure here is of communication before the passenger boarded the bus, by whomever was managing the replacement buses. The bus driver was not at fault here.
DLR bus replacements all have service diagrams, and there are diagrams at the stops and information is given in other places as well. All of it is very clear that buses will not serve Poplar (no suitable roads nearby), West India Quay (ditto) or Heron Quays (only suitable road closed due to long-term construction works) and that buses will serve Canary Wharf instead (a short walk to both West India Quay and Heron Quays). For unscheduled bus replacements the stopping pattern is always made clear by whatever means possible.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 4, 2020 8:46:09 GMT
The bus driver had been given a route with specific stops and they cannot be faulted for doing as they had been instructed to do by management. LOL, that may be your opinion, but it certainly wasn't that of the people on the bus, who thought he was a right t*t! It doesn't help the public perception of drivers that their behaviour with relation to the rules is so erratic. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 4, 2020 10:21:45 GMT
The bus driver had been given a route with specific stops and they cannot be faulted for doing as they had been instructed to do by management. LOL, that may be your opinion, but it certainly wasn't that of the people on the bus, who thought he was a right t*t! It doesn't help the public perception of drivers that their behaviour with relation to the rules is so erratic. We have to be careful. If it's the rules then it's not an opinion is it? If the driver was sticking to the rules in this case (he may well have been sanctioned severely for breaking them, particularly if it caused an accident) then any public perception to the contrary would've been formed by a driver breaking the same rule previously. Information from the dispatchers was the only thing lacking here. |
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Post by zbang on Feb 4, 2020 17:03:37 GMT
LOL, that may be your opinion, but it certainly wasn't that of the people on the bus, who thought he was a right t*t! We have to be careful. If it's the rules then it's not an opinion is it?
The driver's training probably also includes how to work with the public. It's one thing to follow the prescribed route without deviation; it's another to just blow off anyone who disagrees. I'd guess the training tends more towards "Yes, sir, I understand you'd like to get off here, but I'm only allowed to let people off at designated stops." than "Shut your g*b and sit down".
In some arenas, we call this "multiple systems failure".
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 4, 2020 18:38:05 GMT
LOL, that may be your opinion, but it certainly wasn't that of the people on the bus, who thought he was a right t*t! It doesn't help the public perception of drivers that their behaviour with relation to the rules is so erratic. We have to be careful. If it's the rules then it's not an opinion is it? Yes, it's an opinion. That's rather the point of opinions. They don't have to be based on fact or even make sense. It is, after all, the opinion of flat Earthers that the world is not even close to being a sphere. But, as I said in my first post in this thread, it was TfL whose handling of the situation was egregious. Some passengers may have thought the driver was a jobsworth, and so he also has a gripe against TfL for putting him in that situation. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 4, 2020 21:32:52 GMT
We have to be careful. If it's the rules then it's not an opinion is it? Yes, it's an opinion. That's rather the point of opinions. They don't have to be based on fact or even make sense. It is, after all, the opinion of flat Earthers that the world is not even close to being a sphere. But, as I said in my first post in this thread, it was TfL whose handling of the situation was egregious. Some passengers may have thought the driver was a jobsworth, and so he also has a gripe against TfL for putting him in that situation. A rule isn't an opinion. My opinion is that the national speed limit is too low. On the occasions I've been stopped by the police.....guess what, my opinion vs. the rules got me nowhere. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 5, 2020 9:04:58 GMT
Yes, it's an opinion. That's rather the point of opinions. They don't have to be based on fact or even make sense. It is, after all, the opinion of flat Earthers that the world is not even close to being a sphere. But, as I said in my first post in this thread, it was TfL whose handling of the situation was egregious. Some passengers may have thought the driver was a jobsworth, and so he also has a gripe against TfL for putting him in that situation. A rule isn't an opinion. My opinion is that the national speed limit is too low. On the occasions I've been stopped by the police.....guess what, my opinion vs. the rules got me nowhere. Sorry, I misinterpreted what you said. Yes, of course, I agree, the rules override opinions. I thought you were saying that you could not hold an opinion that was contrary to the rules (or fact) - my mistake. You can, just not a valid one. |
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Feb 8, 2020 17:42:16 GMT
As a rail replacement driver, I often have passengers who are upset that we don't follow the line of the railway. We are usually given a route map to follow and the routes are signposted by TfL staff. The driver cannot just choose his own route. There may well be a low bridge in his way, maybe a width restriction, an unsuaitbale road. Passengers don't usually appreciate these sort of facts.
Sometimes I've taken a wrong turn due to being unfamiliar with a new route or haven't worked a route for a long time, or the road layout has changed. Maybe the local 'erberts have moved the signs round. We also have a large number of different routes that we ought to know as well as a general knowledge of London! For coach drivers they don't have many of these luxuries, the TOCs just don't have the same sort of budget as LUL replacements.
As for the pink jacket brigade, they are brought in from all over the place and very often don't have much idea about what there is in a particular locality. They have to stand out in all weathers at their dedicated bus stop for the duration of the shift very often with nobody to give them a break in conditions which verge on the inhuman. It's a thankless job.
Edited to add that very often there's not even any decent toilet facilities available for staff. Certainly at one of our regular haunts at Newbury Park the public toilets are disgusting. Those on the LO netwrok are far superior, very modern, clean and usually warm and always open.
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