metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 6,925
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Post by metman on Jan 12, 2019 9:07:05 GMT
Some of the A-B units that have been operating in the middle of formations for sometime will need work on them as eluded to. I believe they have had some essential equipment robbed such as drivers seats. Is there any news on whether work has begun to bring these cabs back into service?
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Post by superteacher on Jan 12, 2019 9:18:54 GMT
What other changes are coming as part of WTT 70? So with a fleet that is already struggling for reliability and whIch rarely provides the number of trains needed for the peak service, they are looking to make further increases to the service? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 12, 2019 9:59:22 GMT
So with a fleet that is already struggling for reliability and whIch rarely provides the number of trains needed for the peak service, they are looking to make further increases to the service? Reducing the Hainault Shuttle to four cars will effectively create two trains out of one, making an eight car train available elsewhere |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 12, 2019 10:22:44 GMT
So with a fleet that is already struggling for reliability and whIch rarely provides the number of trains needed for the peak service, they are looking to make further increases to the service? Reducing the Hainault Shuttle to four cars will effectively create two trains out of one, making an eight car train available elsewhere I get that NF, but an extra 8 car train still won’t cover the seemingly regular peak cancellations due to non availability of stock. |
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Post by luacton on Jan 12, 2019 13:58:23 GMT
That '8 car' is literally already used up. Original plan is for it to be the CLIP train (central line improvement plan)
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Post by superteacher on Jan 12, 2019 15:09:09 GMT
I just don’t get the logic behind it.
“We’re struggling to run our current timetable. I know, we’ll create an even more demanding one. That’ll do the trick.”
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 12, 2019 16:04:15 GMT
Thinking outside the box.... How busy is the West Ruislip service - especially off-peak? Could there be fewer 8 car trains to West Ruislip, with 4 car shuttles between West Ruislip and either North Acton or Ealing Broadway?? (especially off-peak and weekends)
edit to add: I stared telling someone that some trains are to split up and before I had finished he suggested that trains should divide enroute so that both branches could be served simultaneously!
Somehow I cannot imagine that happening on the Undergound (its different on the mainline)
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Post by superteacher on Jan 12, 2019 17:09:22 GMT
Thinking outside the box.... How busy is the West Ruislip service - especially off-peak? Could there be fewer 8 car trains to West Ruislip, with 4 car shuttles between West Ruislip and either North Acton or Ealing Broadway?? (especially off-peak and weekends) edit to add: I stared telling someone that some trains are to split up and before I had finished he suggested that trains should divide enroute so that both branches could be served simultaneously! Somehow I cannot imagine that happening on the Undergound (its different on the mainline)
There are no plans for that and it would probably be an operational nightmare. |
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Post by ollie102030 on Jan 12, 2019 17:29:44 GMT
Is there any possibility of using anything other than Central Line 1992 stock for the shuttle?
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Post by superteacher on Jan 12, 2019 17:33:17 GMT
Is there any possibility of using anything other than Central Line 1992 stock for the shuttle? No chance. Assuming any spare stock was available, it would have to be compatible with the Central line ATP system. Converting anything else would require money and training of staff to drive and maintain them. It’s also undesirable to have more than one stock operating on a line. |
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Post by patrickb on Jan 12, 2019 17:36:44 GMT
"Let's get the Cravens Unit out and get this over with.." he said wishfully  On a more serious point. I'm not sure what argument is being made here. I thought that the scope of the rearrangement was to eliminate Woodford via Hainault Services and replace that with the Shuttle, it should free up two 8-car sets by replacing them with two 4-car sets and 1 extra 8-car to be taken for overhaul? The answer to the question of insufficient peak trains surely should be answered by curtailing more services to North Acton and Loughton. Personally, I think an additional order for new rolling stock on top of the order for new Piccadilly Line trains should've been made to displace W&C 92's onto the Central, thus providing a more permanent arrangement to address the rolling stock shortage. I'm aware of the work that would need to be carried out to adjust W&C Stock to work on the Central including installation of ATO equipment amongst many other things, though I don't see why it shouldn't be feasible aside from maybe any financial aspect. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 12, 2019 17:51:00 GMT
Thinking outside the box.... How busy is the West Ruislip service - especially off-peak? Could there be fewer 8 car trains to West Ruislip, with 4 car shuttles between West Ruislip and either North Acton or Ealing Broadway?? (especially off-peak and weekends)
edit to add: I stared telling someone that some trains are to split up and before I had finished he suggested that trains should divide enroute so that both branches could be served simultaneously!
Somehow I cannot imagine that happening on the Underground (its different on the mainline)
sorry, I made a typo, I meant North Acton or White City - not Ealing Broadway! |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 12, 2019 17:55:08 GMT
"Let's get the Cravens Unit out and get this over with.." he said wishfully On a more serious point. I'm not sure what argument is being made here. I thought that the scope of the rearrangement was to eliminate Woodford via Hainault Services and replace that with the Shuttle, it should free up two 8-car sets by replacing them with two 4-car sets and 1 extra 8-car to be taken for overhaul? The answer to the question of insufficient peak trains surely should be answered by curtailing more services to North Acton and Loughton. Personally, I think an additional order for new rolling stock on top of the order for new Piccadilly Line trains should've been made to displace W&C 92's onto the Central, thus providing a more permanent arrangement to address the rolling stock shortage. I'm aware of the work that would need to be carried out to adjust W&C Stock to work on the Central including installation of ATO equipment amongst many other things, though I don't see why it shouldn't be feasible aside from maybe any financial aspect. Maybe less work if the W&C trains are restricted to 'inside' cab trains, by which I mean that none of the cabs are at the end of the train.
Or make them like the 1962 stock RAT trains - can be used on the line but in human driver mode - and then use them as permanent shuttles Hainault - Woodford.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 12, 2019 18:02:02 GMT
the Shuttle, it should free up two 8-car sets by replacing them with two 4-car sets and 1 extra 8-car to be taken for overhaul? You have to disband an 8-car set to create two four-car sets, so you only free up one eight-car set. |
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Post by patrickb on Jan 12, 2019 18:16:27 GMT
the Shuttle, it should free up two 8-car sets by replacing them with two 4-car sets and 1 extra 8-car to be taken for overhaul? You have to disband an 8-car set to create two four-car sets, so you only free up one eight-car set. Correct, which is why I said that one 8-car would be taken for overhaul  . The two freed up 8-car sets would be inserted back into main running through the core by having them turn around earlier at Hainault rather than Woodford. Four A-B Sets would be joined to form two 4-car sets and one 8-car set at a time would be taken for overhaul. Sorry if my previous explanation was unclear. spsmiler W&C Stock would still require conversion to ATO. Though using existing 4-car stock to run the shuttle would remove the need to upgrade cabs on the existing additional A-B sets on the Central. If the NTfL or Deep Level Tube Upgrade was not stalled, this would've been far more feasible. |
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