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Post by countryman on Jun 27, 2018 9:02:28 GMT
Here is a video of a train comprising a 4 car 62 stock set and a 4 car 92 car set. Apologies if it has been seen before! The grey ends of the 62 stock cars are interesting!
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 27, 2018 9:27:58 GMT
"Twin stock" is a bit misleading, I think.
Whilst no longer a regular sight, the 1962 stock pilot motor has been used extensively to transfer 1992, 1995 and 1996 stock trains around the network, particularly over areas of railway without the necessary signalling immunisation for those stocks to operate.
In this instance, the 1992 stock is simply being hauled - with working brakes - and the pilot motor is doing all the propulsion. It is possible to control the 1962 stock from the leading cab of the 1992 stock, but again the latter train is very much 'dead'.
If I remember correctly this was one of four such workings during 2014 to position an 8-car train on the South Ealing test track for a few days.
It is possible that this will become a regular move with the start of CLIP at Acton Works, although the final solution is still to be confirmed.
Finally, of note - as may be deduced, the four car pilot motor is the same train as composes the five car west end Central line Rail Adhesion Train. The centre (fifth) Sandite car is removed from the consist.
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 27, 2018 22:39:57 GMT
HI the 1995 and 1996 trains come over to Nothfields Depot with out the pilot cars come over under there own steam for brake testing at South Ealing Test Track.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 27, 2018 23:22:52 GMT
HI the 1995 and 1996 trains come over to Nothfields Depot with out the pilot cars come over under there own steam for brake testing at South Ealing Test Track. They were delivered ex-Ruislip in halves using the pilot motor. 1996 stock can only travel between Rayners and Ealing with specific working arrangements as the signalling is not immunised. There are no issues with the 1995 stock transfers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 3:33:00 GMT
It’s because the signalling is fed 33 1/3hz between North Ealing and South Harrow. And they worry that track circuits won’t drop as a lot of the train has 50hz circuits which is too near to signalling frequency
When we still had the 33 1/3hz track circuits on the District and they ran a S stock guess what happened? Obsoletely nothing everything worked as design.
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Jun 28, 2018 19:39:33 GMT
When we still had the 33 1/3hz track circuits on the District and they ran a S stock guess what happened? Obsoletely nothing everything worked as design. I suppose 999,999 out of 1,000,000 nothing will happen, but it is that other one occasion that there will be an issue |
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Post by t697 on Jun 28, 2018 21:39:59 GMT
When we still had the 33 1/3hz track circuits on the District and they ran a S stock guess what happened? Obsoletely nothing everything worked as design. I suppose 999,999 out of 1,000,000 nothing will happen, but it is that other one occasion that there will be an issue Yes, needs to be at least 3 orders of magnitude better than that to pass the assessments. |
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Post by 1018509 on Jun 28, 2018 21:54:03 GMT
Would it be right to say that the passenger doors of the 1962 stock in the video are sealed and non-operating?
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 28, 2018 23:43:01 GMT
Would it be right to say that the passenger doors of the 1962 stock in the video are sealed and non-operating? It would. There's also no useable interior, before anyone has any ideas! 😁 |
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Post by brigham on Jun 29, 2018 7:24:48 GMT
...There's also no useable interior, before anyone has any ideas! 😁 You could sit on the floor, just like on the Main Line! |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 29, 2018 13:40:31 GMT
"Twin stock" is a bit misleading, I think. Maybe, although that was not the intent. I wanted a simple and succinct way to describe a highly unusual and rare working - a tube train comprising two different types of rolling stock. Simon |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 29, 2018 13:54:04 GMT
Would it be right to say that the passenger doors of the 1962 stock in the video are sealed and non-operating? It would. There's also no useable interior, before anyone has any ideas! 😁 I've just reviewed my footage from 2012 when the RAT train arrived at the platform at Roding Valley station where I was standing (waiting for a train to complete a journey).
My footage suggests that apart from the carriage with the RAT liquid tanks the rest of the train still has seats.
Given that the trains are also fully equipped with the required control gear to be compatible with the Central Line's ATO system so I suspect that many enthusiasts will easily formulate 'ideas'! As this is not a RIPAS or crayonista thread I will refrain from going in to detail.
btw, this footage has not yet been made available for people to see because first I need to have some late 1980's super 8 film which is from several locations on the Hainault loop professionally digitised.
Simon
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Post by arun on Jun 29, 2018 16:52:04 GMT
"Twin stock" is a bit misleading, I think. Maybe, although that was not the intent. I wanted a simple and succinct way to describe a highly unusual and rare working - a tube train comprising two different types of rolling stock. Simon In the recent past i.e., within living memory, there have been several mixed stock trains in both scheduled passenger and engineer movements - viz., 1960 stock trains on the Central Line shuttles, 1935 stock trains on the same Central Line shuttles - both of which had standard stock trailers between later DM stock. Similarly [and earlier] in 1920 Cammell Laird trailers sandwiched between 1905 French-built ex-Piccadilly Line DMs to name just a few mixed stock trains. In more recent times, mixed 1956/59 stock trains operated on the Piccadilly as well as the classic 58 Standard stock trailers operating within 1938TS formations. The Central also had the 57 1962 NDMs which operated within 1959TS formations to increase the 3-car 1959 units transferred from the Piccadilly to 4-car sets on the Central. No doubt others more learned will come up with others. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 29, 2018 17:20:17 GMT
Maybe, although that was not the intent. I wanted a simple and succinct way to describe a highly unusual and rare working - a tube train comprising two different types of rolling stock. Simon In the recent past i.e., within living memory, there have been several mixed stock trains in both scheduled passenger and engineer movements - viz., 1960 stock trains on the Central Line shuttles, 1935 stock trains on the same Central Line shuttles - both of which had standard stock trailers between later DM stock. Similarly [and earlier] in 1920 Cammell Laird trailers sandwiched between 1905 French-built ex-Piccadilly Line DMs to name just a few mixed stock trains. In more recent times, mixed 1956/59 stock trains operated on the Piccadilly as well as the classic 58 Standard stock trailers operating within 1938TS formations. The Central also had the 57 1962 NDMs which operated within 1959TS formations to increase the 3-car 1959 units transferred from the Piccadilly to 4-car sets on the Central. No doubt others more learned will come up with others. Didn't the Bakerloo run 38 stock with standard stock in the middle? |
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Post by t697 on Jun 29, 2018 17:22:39 GMT
There was a 72TS DM car in the middle of a 1967TS train on the Vic for a while covering for the 67TS being in accident repairs.
72TS Mk1 cars in 72TS Mk2 trains. All pretty easy since they are technically very similar.
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Post by arun on Jun 29, 2018 18:04:32 GMT
In the recent past i.e., within living memory, there have been several mixed stock trains in both scheduled passenger and engineer movements - viz., 1960 stock trains on the Central Line shuttles, 1935 stock trains on the same Central Line shuttles - both of which had standard stock trailers between later DM stock. Similarly [and earlier] in 1920 Cammell Laird trailers sandwiched between 1905 French-built ex-Piccadilly Line DMs to name just a few mixed stock trains. In more recent times, mixed 1956/59 stock trains operated on the Piccadilly as well as the classic 58 Standard stock trailers operating within 1938TS formations. The Central also had the 57 1962 NDMs which operated within 1959TS formations to increase the 3-car 1959 units transferred from the Piccadilly to 4-car sets on the Central. No doubt others more learned will come up with others. Didn't the Bakerloo run 38 stock with standard stock in the middle? Yes- the "58" trailers referred to above- Known as the 58 trailers because there were 58 of them though two of them were a bit strange because they were fitted with end doors. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 29, 2018 18:12:19 GMT
There was a 72TS DM car in the middle of a 1967TS train on the Vic for a while covering for the 67TS being in accident repairs. . Twenty-eight 1972 stock cars (DMs and trailers) found a new lease of life in the middle of Victoria Line trains. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 29, 2018 20:20:02 GMT
Didn't the Bakerloo run 38 stock with standard stock in the middle? Yes- the "58" trailers referred to above- Known as the 58 trailers because there were 58 of them though two of them were a bit strange because they were fitted with end doors. Thanks for that |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 29, 2018 20:59:12 GMT
Known as the 58 trailers because there were 58 of them though two of them were a bit strange because they were fitted with end doors. More than a quarter (150 of 551) standard stock trailers had end doors - they were introduced with the 1931 batch for the Picadilly extensions. The IoW stock included examples with and without end doors. However, I understood the "58" trailers all came from the 1927 batch built for the Hampstead line extensions. |
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 29, 2018 21:08:48 GMT
You can run 1959 with 1962 tube stock same train but no 59s to say.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 29, 2018 21:28:05 GMT
The 59/62 RAT trains have some Non driving motor (NDM) cars fitted with compressors and air reservoirs and hence do not have much of an interior in the same way as the new D stock RAT don’t. .
You will find the greatest flexibility with older stock as much of it was ‘car’ stock not ‘unit’ stock. The more modern stock has little scope for interchangeability as systems are spread across the train. The last genuine hybrid passenger stock was probably the 1960 stock in reality, with the 1956/59/62 and 1967/72 stock being readily convertible.
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 30, 2018 0:07:09 GMT
You can run as units 4 car 59 will work with a 4 car 62 they have the same control wires at the auto coupler.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 30, 2018 7:24:06 GMT
Yes but I believe the different batches of 1972 stock were not compatible until the mark 2 batch started to be transferred back to the Northern from the Jubilee in the 1980s? What was the reason for this? Something to do with the future conversation to ATO in the design of the Mk2 batch?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 11:15:27 GMT
Or was it as simple as they had a traditional guards panel in the DM instead of the guard being in the rear cab ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 20:41:44 GMT
It would. There's also no useable interior, before anyone has any ideas! 😁 I've just reviewed my footage from 2012 when the RAT train arrived at the platform at Roding Valley station where I was standing (waiting for a train to complete a journey).
My footage suggests that apart from the carriage with the RAT liquid tanks the rest of the train still has seats.
Given that the trains are also fully equipped with the required control gear to be compatible with the Central Line's ATO system so I suspect that many enthusiasts will easily formulate 'ideas'! As this is not a RIPAS or crayonista thread I will refrain from going in to detail.
btw, this footage has not yet been made available for people to see because first I need to have some late 1980's super 8 film which is from several locations on the Hainault loop professionally digitised.
Simon
Can't be 100% sure, but normally the sandite trains run about with the actual seats removed but the framework in place. Would just be a matter of putting the seats back in, and cleaning any sandite that has been trodden though the train. |
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 30, 2018 23:54:26 GMT
I've just reviewed my footage from 2012 when the RAT train arrived at the platform at Roding Valley station where I was standing (waiting for a train to complete a journey).
My footage suggests that apart from the carriage with the RAT liquid tanks the rest of the train still has seats.
Given that the trains are also fully equipped with the required control gear to be compatible with the Central Line's ATO system so I suspect that many enthusiasts will easily formulate 'ideas'! As this is not a RIPAS or crayonista thread I will refrain from going in to detail.
btw, this footage has not yet been made available for people to see because first I need to have some late 1980's super 8 film which is from several locations on the Hainault loop professionally digitised.
Simon
Can't be 100% sure, but normally the sandite trains run about with the actual seats removed but the framework in place. Would just be a matter of putting the seats back in, and cleaning any sandite that has been trodden though the train. Hi inside a RAT     |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 7:14:21 GMT
Yep, exactly how I thought it was. Thanks for that
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