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Post by flippyff on Apr 20, 2018 7:46:13 GMT
ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:172588-2018:TEXT:EN:HTMLSorry, I'm on mobile and can't do proper quotes - I'll edit later. "Description of the procurement: The London Underground Bakerloo lines’ signalling systems are controlled by dual Hewlett Packard A Series systems which range in age from approximately 25 - 35 years’ old. The systems are supported by a team of Company engineers with the experience and knowledge to carry out first and second line support and repair. The Company also has an inventory of spares for the systems held in store which with suitable testing can be released for signalling system and control repair. The proposed support contract will ask the Contractor to provide a remote third line support service for testing and fault finding, repair and replacement as instructed by LU Bakerloo Line signal engineers. Support shall be triggered by the LU sending a Request for quotation (RFQ) to the Contractor. The RFQ’s will cover several types of requirement including repair and calibration of hardware, response to technical query requiring a written response, supply of replacement hardware, a requirement for training and an annual obsolescence report." "Duration of the contract, framework agreement or dynamic purchasing system Duration in months: 60 This contract is subject to renewal: yes Description of renewals: An option to extend the framework is included in this opportunity of up to 36 months. Due to the very restricted availability of technical knowledge for this 'legacy' Hewlett Packard system the same contractor is likely to be invited to renewal their contract for another 7 year duration of the remaining operational life of the HP system in LUL." So, five years, plus possible three year extension plus another seven year extension? Htioi Simon
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 20, 2018 9:58:53 GMT
Having seen the computers close up, I'll be very surprised if they last that long.
Some of the LUL engineers must be close to retirement.
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Post by coyote on Apr 20, 2018 11:05:56 GMT
They are HP A900 and A990 with just a few megabytes of memory each.
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Post by trt on Apr 20, 2018 15:47:02 GMT
What was the Northern Line using before TBTC and how old was that when it retired?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 16:02:19 GMT
Short lever frames (mechanical interlocking) and electronic programme machines (formerly programme machines), with remote control of interlocking from push buttons also possible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 16:38:44 GMT
What was the Northern Line using before TBTC and how old was that when it retired? 1950’s technology first site being Kennington for Programme Machines |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 16:48:51 GMT
ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:172588-2018:TEXT:EN:HTMLSorry, I'm on mobile and can't do proper quotes - I'll edit later. "Description of the procurement: The London Underground Bakerloo lines’ signalling systems are controlled by dual Hewlett Packard A Series systems which range in age from approximately 25 - 35 years’ old. The systems are supported by a team of Company engineers with the experience and knowledge to carry out first and second line support and repair. The Company also has an inventory of spares for the systems held in store which with suitable testing can be released for signalling system and control repair. The proposed support contract will ask the Contractor to provide a remote third line support service for testing and fault finding, repair and replacement as instructed by LU Bakerloo Line signal engineers. Support shall be triggered by the LU sending a Request for quotation (RFQ) to the Contractor. The RFQ’s will cover several types of requirement including repair and calibration of hardware, response to technical query requiring a written response, supply of replacement hardware, a requirement for training and an annual obsolescence report." "Duration of the contract, framework agreement or dynamic purchasing system Duration in months: 60 This contract is subject to renewal: yes Description of renewals: An option to extend the framework is included in this opportunity of up to 36 months. Due to the very restricted availability of technical knowledge for this 'legacy' Hewlett Packard system the same contractor is likely to be invited to renewal their contract for another 7 year duration of the remaining operational life of the HP system in LUL." So, five years, plus possible three year extension plus another seven year extension? Htioi Simon I’ve heard 2030 being muted around remember the Bakerloo was resignalled in the early 90’s but some of the equipment is now obsolete namely the computers and the FS2500 series track circuit equipment |
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Post by Tom on Apr 25, 2018 20:31:23 GMT
They are HP A900 and A990 with just a few megabytes of memory each. They don't need much memory. The software they run is very bespoke, and is extremely 'no frills'. I know the age profile of the team looking after this kit and I'd suggest some of them are looking to retire once they know there's a support network in place to keep the system going. |
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Post by zbang on May 13, 2018 2:08:34 GMT
(pulling up an older topic)
I often wonder when I see things like this why they don't move the existing code to an emulator on a more modern platform. Few or no operating code changes, just a more modern platform.
(I did a similar project around 1993 to replace a 25 year old Westinghouse computer which operated in the critical path of a steel-making process. We didn't make any changes to the existing code other than for the new terminals (simulated the old ones), and those were heavily vetted and tested. It worked well; took six+ months, but it worked.)
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 6:57:09 GMT
Do you think they will install conventional signalling when the extension to Lewisham goes ahead ?
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 13, 2018 9:09:44 GMT
Do you think they will install conventional signalling when the extension to Lewisham goes ahead ? The extension won't open until the new trains have been delivered and the signals upgraded as installing conventional signalling that will be redundant after a few years makes no sense financially |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 9:12:47 GMT
They did it to the ELL so anything is possible
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Post by Chris M on May 13, 2018 11:06:42 GMT
Do you think they will install conventional signalling when the extension to Lewisham goes ahead ? The extension won't open until the new trains have been delivered and the signals upgraded as installing conventional signalling that will be redundant after a few years makes no sense financially That's exactly what they did with the JLE. |
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Post by crusty54 on May 13, 2018 11:08:48 GMT
They did it to the ELL so anything is possible Adding the extension to the legacy signalling would be a major challenge. |
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Post by superteacher on May 13, 2018 11:13:00 GMT
The extension won't open until the new trains have been delivered and the signals upgraded as installing conventional signalling that will be redundant after a few years makes no sense financially That's exactly what they did with the JLE. Although in that case it was to be around 13 years or so before TBTC signalling was introduced. With Lewisham, it would be a lot shorter. |
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Post by MoreToJack on May 13, 2018 15:53:14 GMT
This was also the original plan for the MLX (conventional signalling), and the wranglings of who would pay for CBTC was one of the issues aiui.
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 14, 2018 7:24:12 GMT
The extension won't open until the new trains have been delivered and the signals upgraded as installing conventional signalling that will be redundant after a few years makes no sense financially That's exactly what they did with the JLE. The original plan was for the JLE to be ATO but they couldn't get the system to work and conventional signalling was only installed so they could commence passenger service in time for the opening of Millennium Dome. The big difference is that the Bakerloo Extension doesn't have to open by a specific date and governments aren't so keen to throw money at a problem as they were back then |
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