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Post by piccboy on Dec 23, 2017 13:35:33 GMT
It seems crazy that these works are going ahead with the Picc used as the alternative route when it has been so unreliable recently - when it breaks down (as I'm sure it will at some point on these days) where do people go? Delaying these works would have a big impact on the District line reliability and the work towards the new signalling system. This time of year is the best time for this kind of project as many people are not commuting because of Christmas holidays. There would be no guarantee that the Piccadilly line would have a better service when this work is rescheduled. Any delay in rolling out the new signalling system on the District could impact the resignalling work on other lines as the staff and assets used would not be available. Finally more drivers have been granted leave because less required with shutdown, so even if the engineering work was lifted, the District would only be able to run a limited service at the best.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 17:28:07 GMT
It seems crazy that these works are going ahead with the Picc used as the alternative route when it has been so unreliable recently - when it breaks down (as I'm sure it will at some point on these days) where do people go? I can think of worse sites to work on replacing good sets of points at Earl’s Court is crazy also in my opinion
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Post by superteacher on Jan 19, 2018 15:44:03 GMT
This status makes me laugh:
Piccadilly Line: No service between Kings Cross and Arnos Grove eastbound only, due to emergency engineering work at Wood Green. Tickets will be accepted on London Buses and Great Northern via any reasonable route. GOOD SERVICE on the rest of the line
If they are reversing the service at Kings Cross, no way will there be a good service on the rest of the line!
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Post by nig on Jan 19, 2018 16:04:23 GMT
This status makes me laugh: Piccadilly Line: No service between Kings Cross and Arnos Grove eastbound only, due to emergency engineering work at Wood Green. Tickets will be accepted on London Buses and Great Northern via any reasonable route. GOOD SERVICE on the rest of the lineIf they are reversing the service at Kings Cross, no way will there be a good service on the rest of the line! been changed to this now Piccadilly Line: No service between Kings Cross and Arnos Grove eastbound and between Arnos Grove and Wood Green westbound only, due to emergency engineering work at Wood Green not sure how that works as you need east bound trains to reverse at wood green to have a southbound service so basically suspended kings cross to arnos grove both roads or wood green to arnos grove both roads
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Post by superteacher on Jan 19, 2018 16:12:53 GMT
There is a queue of trains after Kings Cross waiting to reverse at Wood Green, so these will form a westbound service once they have reversed. However, there are now massive gaps on the line approaching the peak, yet it’s only minor delays. This will simply encourage passengers to think the service isn’t too bad and thus use the line, which will cause major overcrowding. Not good at all from TFL.
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Post by PiccNT on Jan 19, 2018 23:46:27 GMT
Wow, that was a fun shift this evening!
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 20, 2018 0:03:49 GMT
Wow, that was a fun shift this evening! Care to elaborate why?
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Post by PiccNT on Jan 20, 2018 4:50:51 GMT
Wow, that was a fun shift this evening! Care to elaborate why? Because of the broken rail at Wood Green, it was necessary to introduce an emergency timetable. At one stage, I counted about 15 T/Ops at Arnos Grove with one of the Duty Manager's renumbering trains once they started to appear EB after the ERU had put in a temporary fix. One of my colleagues that had driven over the broken rail said the train dipped as it went over it. Didn't sound great! So anyway, my duty started at 16:55 and i was supposed to go to Terminal 4 and then back to Acton Town, have my meal break and then pick up another train at 20:40, take it to Terminal 5, back to Acton Town, jump off at 21:52 and then pick up another at 22:14, back to Terminal 4 and then to Cockfosters and into the depot at 00:31. What I ended up doing was picking up a train at Arnos Grove, taking it to Cockfosters, back to Terminal 5 and I thought I may be relieved at Acton Town to have my meal relief albeit about 30 minutes late. No sign of a relief so I carried on. Attempts to speak to the Controller along the way came to nothing, he was probably too busy to answer my calls! Got to Arnos Grove, no sign of anyone again so carried on again. Controller answered my call at Southgate and asked me to put the train I was on in the depot. By the time I got in there it was about 21:45, walked back up to our accommodation building, spoke to my Trains Manager, said that I hadn't had my meal relief yet and so basically that was all I ended up doing. There is a TSR of 10 mph over the affected section. Not sure when that will be fixed as Night Tube will be running so no engineering time until end of traffic on Sunday.
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 20, 2018 10:59:58 GMT
There is a queue of trains after Kings Cross waiting to reverse at Wood Green, so these will form a westbound service once they have reversed. However, there are now massive gaps on the line approaching the peak, yet it’s only minor delays. This will simply encourage passengers to think the service isn’t too bad and thus use the line, which will cause major overcrowding. Not good at all from TFL. I really don't understand why they don't adopt a more cautious attitude to their statuses. Being more pessimistic will help the service to recover because if people see the reality (suspended KX-Arnos, severe delays rest of the line) they will use alternatives. Tell them it's all good and they'll flock to the picc. The only thing I can think of is that it helps someone with some target somewhere. Again, how much has to go wrong with the Picc until it becomes an issue raised at the highest levels?
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Post by superteacher on Jan 20, 2018 11:18:04 GMT
There is a queue of trains after Kings Cross waiting to reverse at Wood Green, so these will form a westbound service once they have reversed. However, there are now massive gaps on the line approaching the peak, yet it’s only minor delays. This will simply encourage passengers to think the service isn’t too bad and thus use the line, which will cause major overcrowding. Not good at all from TFL. I really don't understand why they don't adopt a more cautious attitude to their statuses. Being more pessimistic will help the service to recover because if people see the reality (suspended KX-Arnos, severe delays rest of the line) they will use alternatives. Tell them it's all good and they'll flock to the picc. The only thing I can think of is that it helps someone with some target somewhere. Again, how much has to go wrong with the Picc until it becomes an issue raised at the highest levels? Totally agree. I’m sure it’s been discussed before that there are targets related to service statuses etc.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
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Post by Ben on Jan 20, 2018 15:48:36 GMT
Yes, the 'Good Service' thing is an internal politics thing. Do any of the third party apps which read the raw feeds for trains calculate their own service status?
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Post by roman80 on Jan 20, 2018 17:43:51 GMT
Is it just me, and I don't have access to internal information, just my own travel experiences, but train breakdowns seem to be increasing (two in two days on the Jubilee in peak times last week that affected me). Also, district line signal failures seem at least a daily occurrence in the past month. Are things being serviced less frequently due to less money coming in (fares freeze, changes in bus tickets etc.)?
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Post by roverlei on Feb 11, 2018 21:27:26 GMT
I know we've reached 5 pages on this topic but, as a regular Uxbridge-branch commuter, I'm astounded it's not grown bigger. The service is abysmal, and since the dreaded Christmas 2016 wheel disaster, we've basically had to deal with one catastrophic failure a week after another, which leaves one having to find alternative means of transport home from work. I'm left to believe that there is no chance for any improvement until 2025, when all those new trains and signals will, allegedly, be up and running. What's a guy to do between now and then?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 12, 2018 7:10:59 GMT
I know we've reached 5 pages on this topic but, as a regular Uxbridge-branch commuter, I'm astounded it's not grown bigger. The service is abysmal, and since the dreaded Christmas 2016 wheel disaster, we've basically had to deal with one catastrophic failure a week after another, which leaves one having to find alternative means of transport home from work. I'm left to believe that there is no chance for any improvement until 2025, when all those new trains and signals will, allegedly, be up and running. What's a guy to do between now and then? The Met, Bakerloo, Central and Chiltern Railways all offer alternative routes into or out of central London, it all depends on where you are starting from and where you want to end up. That's not really my side of London so I'm not to savvy on local bus routes. Also try to avoid voting for Mayors who cancel replacement trains for the Piccadilly and Bakerloo Lines that should have entered service in 2014 because they want the money to pay for a New Bus for London, a cable car to nowhere, a big red metal swirly thing next to the Olympic Stadium, a Garden Bridge, etc. We certainly had a problem with train failures on the Central Line before May 2016 so its not anything new, as I understand it there aren't enough Train Maintainers to deal with the work load without them working of overtime which is limited because of safety critical working regulations. Consequently some trains enter service with minor faults that later develop into major faults while in service The fall in revenue is more a result of the reduction of the central grant from the Treasury (from £591m in 2015 to zero in 2018) and the drop in passenger numbers over the last financial year. It could be argued that without the fares freeze the drop in passenger numbers could have been greater although you won't read that in the Evening Standard whose current editor decided to cut TfL's subsidy. I know we don't like politics on this forum but its hard to avoid the subject when it comes to funding of the Tube because it is a political issue
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 12, 2018 7:58:27 GMT
I know we've reached 5 pages on this topic but, as a regular Uxbridge-branch commuter, I'm astounded it's not grown bigger. The service is abysmal, and since the dreaded Christmas 2016 wheel disaster, we've basically had to deal with one catastrophic failure a week after another, which leaves one having to find alternative means of transport home from work. I'm left to believe that there is no chance for any improvement until 2025, when all those new trains and signals will, allegedly, be up and running. What's a guy to do between now and then? The Met, Bakerloo, Central and Chiltern Railways all offer alternative routes into or out of central London, it all depends on where you are starting from and where you want to end up. That's not really my side of London so I'm not to savvy on local bus routes. Also try to avoid voting for Mayors who cancel replacement trains for the Piccadilly and Bakerloo Lines that should have entered service in 2014 because they want the money to pay for a New Bus for London, a cable car to nowhere, a big red metal swirly thing next to the Olympic Stadium, a Garden Bridge, etc. We certainly had a problem with train failures on the Central Line before May 2016 so its not anything new, as I understand it there aren't enough Train Maintainers to deal with the work load without them working of overtime which is limited because of safety critical working regulations. Consequently some trains enter service with minor faults that later develop into major faults while in service The fall in revenue is more a result of the reduction of the central grant from the Treasury (from £591m in 2015 to zero in 2018) and the drop in passenger numbers over the last financial year. It could be argued that without the fares freeze the drop in passenger numbers could have been greater although you won't read that in the Evening Standard whose current editor decided to cut TfL's subsidy. I know we don't like politics on this forum but its hard to avoid the subject when it comes to funding of the Tube because it is a political issue ......and I'd say you've been quite restrained above regarding the political comment aslef although I will note again for everybody's benefit that it's PARTISAN political comment that we won't accept. Broad generalisations are tolerable but as soon as it starts to develop into a party or politician bashing scenario, threads will start getting locked and possible further sanctions issued. I've watched another forum I'm involved with gradually ruined by bitter partisan politics and it wasn't pleasant to see. Fortunately, there's something that I, and the other Moderators can do to stop it happening here, and make no mistake, we will.
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Feb 12, 2018 15:44:11 GMT
I know we've reached 5 pages on this topic but, as a regular Uxbridge-branch commuter, I'm astounded it's not grown bigger. The service is abysmal, and since the dreaded Christmas 2016 wheel disaster, we've basically had to deal with one catastrophic failure a week after another, which leaves one having to find alternative means of transport home from work. I'm left to believe that there is no chance for any improvement until 2025, when all those new trains and signals will, allegedly, be up and running. What's a guy to do between now and then? There are no buses that serve all intermediate stations between Rayners Lane and Acton Town. From South Harrow, you can use the 487 which calls at several stations: Sudbury Town, Alperton, Hanger Lane & Park Royal. Its usually one floor bus, not the most frequent. There are several buses that can get you from Ruislip to South Harrow: 114 and 398. If you need access to the Park Royal area from Uxbridge, it would be better to take a local bus to West Ruislip (U1 and U10) and then take the central line. Getting from Rayners Lane to Ealing Broadway is also problematic if there is suspension, but my advise is to use the 483/ 297 from Alperton station, having arrived there by means described above. You can also walk between North Ealing (Piccadilly Line) and West Acton (Central Line), it takes 10 minutes at a brisk pace. Same for Park Royal and Hanger Lane. If you are going to Hammersmith, again during delays, it might be better to take the central line to Shepherd's Bush station, then take one of four buses (72,220,283,295) from outside West 12 shopping center ( not Westfields). Any journey further in and you can take the Met line and change at Baker St/ Edgware Rd for the circle line/ district line to Earl's Court/ Glouctester Rd/ South Ken. You can also take the 74 bus from Baker St to Gloucester Rd/ South Ken and reasonably close walking distance to Earls Court and High Street Kensington.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 12, 2018 16:43:07 GMT
If you are going to Hammersmith, again during delays, it might be better to take the central line to Shepherd's Bush station, then take one of four buses (72,220,283,295) Wouldn't the White City/ Wood Lane OSI be quicker, easier and cheaper?
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 12, 2018 21:49:35 GMT
Maybe an Uxbridge - Acton Town shuttle would serve passengers better? - By not going to Central London it might even be more reliable!
Simon
(ps; I nearly used the wrong Acton station... South Acton. hmm, I'm not sure the passengers would have welcomed a single carriage train!! Especially in peak hours it might have become somewhat crowded)
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Post by superteacher on Feb 12, 2018 22:00:07 GMT
The idea of an Acton Town to Uxbridge shuttle has already been discussed, and any further discussion on it needs to go into RIPAS. Thanks.
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 13, 2018 9:31:45 GMT
Took the Picc this morning as the District was disrupted. Found that the "good service" being advertised consisted of 10 minute gaps in the service, many of those trains being unable to be boarded as too full. Apparently some failure at Arnos this morning, but the good service message continued! Surely lying to customers should not be accepted by staff of all grades?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 13, 2018 10:35:54 GMT
Took the Picc this morning as the District was disrupted. Found that the "good service" being advertised consisted of 10 minute gaps in the service, many of those trains being unable to be boarded as too full. Apparently some failure at Arnos this morning, but the good service message continued! Surely lying to customers should not be accepted by staff of all grades? The messages are automated so they will keep going regardless of what the actual situation is until someone changes it but post-Fit for the Future stations have so few staff that they're busy dealing with passengers in the ticket hall, doing SATS etc. and they don't have time to jog to the control room to mess about with the PA.
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 14, 2018 7:55:08 GMT
At least this morning it is admitted that there's yet another major issue...
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 14, 2018 8:14:23 GMT
According to the Piccadilly Line Twitter it was a signal failure at Kings Cross around 6am with service suspended between Hammersmith and Arnos Grove but resumed after about half an hour. It wouldn't have been that busy so station staff would have been able to nip off to the control room, program a PA message and grab a cuppa before the hoards descended
I do not miss working on stations at all.....
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Post by PiccNT on Feb 14, 2018 10:26:27 GMT
Had a few issues last night as well. The equipment that scans the train numbers at Acton Town to set up the appropriate route went wrong. A few frantic calls on the train radio asking T/Ops what their train number was followed! Caused blocking back certainly to me at Knightsbridge. Then the train in front of me was reversed at Barons Court and I got another platform load of people on my train. Got to Heathrow T5 13 minutes late but achieved a PB in getting there, reversing in the sidings and back EB and gone in 4 minutes! Well, grub time was approaching and got to Acton Town on time.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 14, 2018 10:39:36 GMT
At least the 73 stock are still fairly reliable (wheel flat saga excluded!). When their reliability starts to decline, I feel the Picc with its aging infrastructure really will become a no go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 10:40:39 GMT
Nothing scans the actual train numbers what failed yesterday was the CTFS ( Centralised Train Following System ) which follows the train from one end to the other, well South Harrow on the Rayners Branch.
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2018 20:45:40 GMT
Nothing scans the actual train numbers what failed yesterday was the CTFS ( Centralised Train Following System ) which follows the train from one end to the other, well South Harrow on the Rayners Branch. Oh, but everyone tells me how wonderful it is
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Feb 14, 2018 20:51:45 GMT
Sounds like you'd have better luck tying a piece of red string onto the back of a train...
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Post by jpd888 on Feb 15, 2018 23:42:24 GMT
I recently had the misfortune of needing to get from Oakwood to Kensington a couple of weeks back. After a 20 minute delay in platform, my train then crawled into town taking a further 30 minutes to reach Kings Cross. After taking 74 minutes to reach Knightsbridge I abandoned ship and took the bus.
I’m old enough to remember when the Northern line got that bad by the early nineties. The new trains were used as a catalyst for a coordinated campaign of tunnel widening, rail replacement and other infrastructure work. Hopefully the same can be done here because the Pic is fast becoming an embarrassment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 3:48:14 GMT
The District not doing too good on recent form
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