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Post by spsmiler on Oct 12, 2017 23:25:01 GMT
This thread is about the London Transport Museum (LTM) Class 438 4TC Heritage train. I noticed a few weeks ago during the Steam On The Met event that the train now has Central Door Locking - the photo below was taken on the inside of a passenger door (its a small image but I think its enough to see the message).  However, thats not the whole story. The outside of the train has gained some lights which look as if they illuminate when the doors are unlocked. I did not notice this but assume that they are on both sides of each coach. This can be seen in the image below - its near the top / between the two windows.  Also... look at the bottom of the door... it looks as if something new has been fitted which is related. Perhaps a magnetic switch which confirms that the door is closed?  This next image shows how the additional metalwork has not been fitted to the guard's door.  Finally, as a contrast, a photo from the days before the recent repaint and other works.  Possibly passengers were not supposed to notice such things, its most likely that few 'normal' people would notice this - but as a transport enthusiast I'm not a 'normal' passenger! I also saw some passenger door lock / unlock buttons in the guards compartment but as I have not placed a photo showing these online I cannot show them here. What I do not know is whether the central door locking has separate controls for each side of the train (ie: is 'correct side enabled') or the one set of lock / unlock buttons cover the entire train. As an aside, my photos come from this webpage, which I recently updated (still in progress) citytransport.info/Vintage.htmSimon |
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Post by tjw on Oct 13, 2017 8:48:53 GMT
To see how the door locking works you will need to look along the edge of the door, there is presumably another lock fitted running electrically, as opposed to the other two locks on Mk1 doors. Other slam door stock has been fitted additional locking systems, this version seems to be rather advanced.
The plate at the bottom of the door is covering the step board, the step boards appear to have been replaced, the originals were wood these new ones are cheap metal. I suspect they have been added to prevent people riding on the outside of the train...
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cso
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Post by cso on Oct 13, 2017 9:34:29 GMT
I wonder if the Door Locking was added to meet modern H+S standards or connected to it running down at Swanage?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 13, 2017 9:49:24 GMT
The plate at the bottom of the door is covering the step board, I suspect they have been added to prevent people riding on the outside of the train... If they had extended that flared plate the full length of the carriage, it would resemble the profile of the OPQR stocks, which had flared sides for exactly that reason. (It would look much tidier too) |
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Post by 100andthirty on Oct 13, 2017 13:05:31 GMT
The 'buttons' look to me like door stops/bumpers
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Post by countryman on Oct 13, 2017 13:21:44 GMT
In the third photo, any idea what the orange mark is to the left of the door? It looks like rust, but probably isn't.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 13, 2017 13:30:29 GMT
In the third photo, any idea what the orange mark is to the left of the door? It looks like rust, but probably isn't. Dead leaf. |
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Post by fish7373 on Oct 13, 2017 14:46:28 GMT
The guards door opens inwards can`t have steel plates at bottom of door and bars on doors for stopping people putting there heads out of window.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 13, 2017 16:12:02 GMT
In the third photo, any idea what the orange mark is to the left of the door? It looks like rust, but probably isn't. Some more orange is visible on the left of the door, just below the window bar. I feel pretty sure that this was a reflection of the platform lighting. I've just reviewed my video footage and confirmed that they were indeed switched on! Whilst the lights under the platform canopies are fluorescent tubes the lights on the open air portions of the platforms are orange-ish in colour. I do not know the correct terminology for them, perhaps it is sodium discharge? Quite why the platform lighting was switched on in the middle of the day and how much it costs to run is all beyond my capability to answer. Simon |
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Post by brigham on Oct 14, 2017 7:52:10 GMT
I wonder if the Door Locking was added to meet modern H+S standards or connected to it running down at Swanage? Have the Board of Trade (or whoever now has the responsibility) reversed their policy on locking carriage doors with passengers aboard? I take it there will be some 'emergency opening' provision from within? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 14, 2017 8:03:21 GMT
Have the Board of Trade (or whoever now has the responsibility) reversed their policy on locking carriage doors with passengers aboard? I take it there will be some 'emergency opening' provision from within? Passengers on sliding door trains are effectively locked in until the doors are released. Provided there is some emergency release system the passengers can use, it seems to be allowed. |
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Post by phil on Oct 14, 2017 8:07:48 GMT
I wonder if the Door Locking was added to meet modern H+S standards or connected to it running down at Swanage? Secondary door locking is mandatory for ALL passenger carrying vehicles on Network Rail Infrastructure. In the case of open access operators running scheduled services and regular TOCs, this secondary door locking must be of the Centrally operated type with no intervention possible by passengers. Railtour operators can get away with using manually operated 'garden gate style' bolts on their Mk1s because (i) They only allow persons to travel if the have an allocated seat and (ii) They have enough on board stewards so the train can be regularly patrolled and persons found loitering in vestibules / near doors can be directed to return to their seats ASAP. There are however indications that the ORR is not happy with this arrangement and it would not be surprising if this crude system had to be upgraded in the next decade. Fitting the 4TC unit with secondary door locking (which is basically the same type fitted to the two 3CIGs SWT used on the Lymington branch a few years ago and the system fitted to the 'Bubble Cars' Chiltern used on the Aylesbury - Princess Risborough branch) makes the unit more versatile and |
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Post by phil on Oct 14, 2017 8:11:33 GMT
I wonder if the Door Locking was added to meet modern H+S standards or connected to it running down at Swanage? Have the Board of Trade (or whoever now has the responsibility) reversed their policy on locking carriage doors with passengers aboard? I take it there will be some 'emergency opening' provision from within? Naturally there will be some form of emergency release. I would point out that InterCity has been 'locking people in' as you put it since around 1992 so the concept of stopping idiots from opening train doors until the guard / driver is happy it is safe to do so is hardly new! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 14, 2017 8:41:27 GMT
Provided there is some emergency release system the passengers can use, it seems to be allowed. No such device on many LU Stock (S Stock included). |
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Post by peterc on Oct 14, 2017 12:54:57 GMT
Provided there is some emergency release system the passengers can use, it seems to be allowed. No such device on many LU Stock (S Stock included). I can't remember what stock it was on, LU, BR or post privatisation but I have a clear memory of a release handle behind glass for sliding doors and in extremis I would be looking for that on a strange train. I think that Mk3 BR stock had a hammer to break the glass on one of the central windows. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 14, 2017 13:35:20 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Oct 14, 2017 15:00:20 GMT
The DLR trains have green-coloured emergency exit handles. You can sort of see it on the right of the door in this picture:  (click for a larger version) There is a slightly better view of one in the bottom left of this picture commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:B2007interior.jpgI'll try and remember to get a better photo next time I'm on the DLR (probably not before about Tuesday). |
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Post by brigham on Oct 16, 2017 14:34:47 GMT
It was a long-standing practice on the London & Greenwich Railway to lock the carriage doors, which did not meet with the approval of the Board of Trade.
Major General Pasley, the Government Inspector of Railways, made an incognito journey on the line, and observed that
...no prudent person would go out of the carriages on the near side if left open, as there is hardly room for a very thin person between them and the parapet wall; and even persons of this description, if wearing clothes, etc., might thereby become entangled, and liable to some serious accident if standing there when a train passed them.
The Board of Trade spent nearly a month examining the matter, and finally decided that, after consulting Maj. Gen. Pasley
...are of the opinion that it would be desirable that the practice of locking up the passengers should not be persisted in.
Accordingly, the Directors gave instructions that the doors be left unlocked in future.
(Public Records Office, BoT (Railway Dept.)
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 16, 2017 15:58:15 GMT
The practice was abandoned in France very early, after the 1842 crash at Versailles, where many passengers perished in a fire following a derailment. But in the UK, it was still common practice in 1889, when the high death toll in the Armagh runaway crash (over 80, the worst in the UK to that date and only exceeded by three subsequent ones) was partly the result of the carriages being locked to prevent unauthorised people joining the Sunday School excursion.
I'm sure I have been locked (with a mechanical key) into a carriage on a narrow gauge railway fairly recently.
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 16, 2017 16:58:18 GMT
The Ffestiniog lock carriage doors on account of limited clearances. The Snowdon still do, after their one and only fatality on opening day.
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Post by christopher125 on Nov 4, 2017 17:23:05 GMT
The plate at the bottom of the door is covering the step board, the step boards appear to have been replaced, the originals were wood these new ones are cheap metal. I suspect they have been added to prevent people riding on the outside of the train... The plates are part of the locking mechanism as mentioned here"This picture illustrates the metal plate added to the bottom of each door so it can be held by an electromagnet fitted to the footboard. This was actually done after both units started working the Lymington branch" |
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