Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Oct 16, 2017 15:13:45 GMT
LU has looked several times at moving the trains to the Picc. It is unusually complicated. Even from day 1, before movimg the trains.....the OPOCCTV trackside kit and the CSDE/announcement trigger beacons (now decommissioned) would have to be fitted. Then the PIS would need to be reprogrammed. None of this is impossible. Now, of course, there is the ATO system to fit. Also not impossible. The third complicating factor is that thd trains are not owned by LU and are maintained by Alstom. Both owner and maintainer need to be involved in any decision to move the trains. All three factors cost, and reduce LU's flexibility or ability to source on the open market, and has repeatedly been discounted. I would be very surprised if issue were to be looked at again. Oh dear! Presumably when the contract with Alstom finished LUL will have greater flexibility with the fleet, should they so wish. It is interesting that the operational arrangements noted as investigated assume the trains run as is, rather than try to mimic how the 73 stock runs with tripcocks and platform CCTV. Don't suppose you know if a conventional operating mode was considered and if so why it was rejected? Is it really more difficult or expensive to build a case around such rather than OPO CCTV trackside kit and CSDE/announcement trigger beacons? Forgive me seeming foolishly persistent. ------- I suppose the broader question is how much must change before other assumptions and decisions start seeming more viable to reassess. It is lamentable that the former level of standardisation achieved by LT is now so fragmented.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Oct 16, 2017 17:38:57 GMT
I saw this on the intranet when I started work today
"Investment in other lines will reduce the number of trips currently being made on the Jubilee line. The Elizabeth line will transform how our passengers get around London, with nearly 10,000 fewer eastbound Jubilee line trips being made, and 5,500 fewer trips from Stratford to Canary Wharf. Thameslink is nearing completion, which will enable a full service into London Bridge – reducing westbound demand on the Jubilee from Canada Water"
Okay I can see passengers choosing to stay on Crossrail an extra stop then changing platforms at Whitechapel rather changing onto the Jubilee at Stratford and Thameslink might reduce demand on the Northern Line north of London Brdigde but how will effect the Jubilee west of Canada Water?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 17, 2017 19:32:36 GMT
I presume the thinking regarding Thameslink is that passengers will use that from south London into London Bridge rather than, as at present, use the ELL/JLE changing at Canada Water. If Thameslink serving the Greenwich line happens then this is not impossible.
I think though that they are underestimating how many people using the Jubilee line to Canary Wharf will continue to do so as the station is significantly better sited for the majority of offices and for bus and DLR interchange.
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Oct 17, 2017 20:30:36 GMT
I know they'll be making assumptions about how many people may use Thameslink once the new timetable kicks in, but how many Londoners even know it exists? If TFL persist in not putting at least part of the route on the tube map, then a good number of people will not know about the service and thus continue using the Jubilee line to London Bridge and Greenwich.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 21:10:34 GMT
Fitting the Piccadilly with Seltrac S40 Track Loops and Signalling systems to work with the 1995 trains will be the hardest bit.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 17, 2017 21:13:07 GMT
<<Thread drift alert>>
As much as the impact of Crossrail / Thaneslink on other services is interesting, this isn’t the place to discuss it. Thanks.
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Post by philthetube on Oct 18, 2017 6:59:50 GMT
Fitting the Piccadilly with Seltrac S40 Track Loops and Signalling systems to work with the 1995 trains will be the hardest bit. 95 stock can be manually driven, and were for long enough, they would just need tripcocks refitting.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 18, 2017 7:09:32 GMT
Fitting the Piccadilly with Seltrac S40 Track Loops and Signalling systems to work with the 1995 trains will be the hardest bit. 95 stock can be manually driven, and were for long enough, they would just need tripcocks refitting. There would need to be a software update to enable full speed manual operation, as that option was removed when they were converted to ATO use. Seems like a lot of money and inconvenience to downgrade a train, which is probably why it won’t happen.
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Post by roman80 on Oct 20, 2017 22:10:07 GMT
I presume the thinking regarding Thameslink is that passengers will use that from south London into London Bridge rather than, as at present, use the ELL/JLE changing at Canada Water. If Thameslink serving the Greenwich line happens then this is not impossible. I think though that they are underestimating how many people using the Jubilee line to Canary Wharf will continue to do so as the station is significantly better sited for the majority of offices and for bus and DLR interchange. I think you are right on the last point. I wrote a while back on the breakdown of the commuting habits of the people I work with in Canary Wharf: districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/448555/threadSince this thread started a few weeks ago I have been checking with the same group, and only three of them expect to use Crossrail to and from Canary Wharf. They are from West London and change from the Central line at Bond Street. Another three from the Wimbledon branch want to see the length of the change at Paddington from the District to the Elizabeth line before committing, and think the benefit for them is more that they can board any train in the morning and change at Paddington or Westminster for Canary Wharf. This will give them more options as the Edgware Road trains are easier to board for them from stations like Parsons Green and Fulham Broadway. I continue to be amazed at the growing number of people who change onto the Jubilee from the DLR each morning at Canary Wharf. They may be more likely candidates to use Crossrail from Canary Wharf.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 20, 2017 23:08:38 GMT
Door to door, Canary Wharf Crossrail and Canary Wharf Jubilee are going to be about the same distance I think, but I'm not convinced that platform to platform Crossrail will be quicker than the Jubilee - and you can't get to crossrail without getting wet I don't think. Certainly from the south Heron Quays will still probably be the better change and I'll probably continue to use that route (changing at Heron Quays/Canary Wharf JLE and Baker Street) to get to Paddington from Mudchute.
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 31, 2017 17:45:52 GMT
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 31, 2017 19:27:49 GMT
Door to door, Canary Wharf Crossrail and Canary Wharf Jubilee are going to be about the same distance I think, but I'm not convinced that platform to platform Crossrail will be quicker than the Jubilee - and you can't get to crossrail without getting wet I don't think. Certainly from the south Heron Quays will still probably be the better change and I'll probably continue to use that route (changing at Heron Quays/Canary Wharf JLE and Baker Street) to get to Paddington from Mudchute. From memory I think there is a convoluted route to/from the Jubilee West End Ticket Hall via Jubilee Walk, Canada Place and Canada Walk. If that didn't make any sense heres what (I think) the route is vaguely like from the Jubilee over to the Crossrail station. 1.Left hand entrance into Canada Place Mall, up the bank of escalators to level -1, down the corridor until the cross section with the other parade (Canada Place) 2.Right at this intersection heading down until the intersection with Canada Walk facing a set of escalators and Waitrose. 3.Left at this cross and along which gets you to level -1 facing a left hand right angle corner facing a set of escalators and lift that take you up to level 0 on Bank Street 4.Turning left at the corner on level -1 will get you to an escalator and lift that puts you in the middle on the side of the station. I can't recall whether there is a direct link to/from the Eastern end of the Jubilee line station. If there is then its up a set of escalators, left on to Montgomery Walk and Right down Canda Walk etc. In case got the levels of this station completely wrong (likely) here the link for the map of the area (page 2) on which I based the above on: canarywharf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/canary-wharf-guide-november-2015.pdf
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Post by roman80 on Oct 31, 2017 22:48:31 GMT
Door to door, Canary Wharf Crossrail and Canary Wharf Jubilee are going to be about the same distance I think, but I'm not convinced that platform to platform Crossrail will be quicker than the Jubilee - and you can't get to crossrail without getting wet I don't think. Certainly from the south Heron Quays will still probably be the better change and I'll probably continue to use that route (changing at Heron Quays/Canary Wharf JLE and Baker Street) to get to Paddington from Mudchute. From memory I think there is a convoluted route to/from the Jubilee West End Ticket Hall via Jubilee Walk, Canada Place and Canada Walk. If that didn't make any sense heres what (I think) the route is vaguely like from the Jubilee over to the Crossrail station. 1.Left hand entrance into Canada Place Mall, up the bank of escalators to level -1, down the corridor until the cross section with the other parade (Canada Place) 2.Right at this intersection heading down until the intersection with Canada Walk facing a set of escalators and Waitrose. 3.Left at this cross and along which gets you to level -1 facing a left hand right angle corner facing a set of escalators and lift that take you up to level 0 on Bank Street 4.Turning left at the corner on level -1 will get you to an escalator and lift that puts you in the middle on the side of the station. I can't recall whether there is a direct link to/from the Eastern end of the Jubilee line station. If there is then its up a set of escalators, left on to Montgomery Walk and Right down Canda Walk etc. In case got the levels of this station completely wrong (likely) here the link for the map of the area (page 2) on which I based the above on: canarywharf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/canary-wharf-guide-november-2015.pdfI think the easiest way to make the change and remain undercover is as follows, expressed as a move from the tube to crossrail: leave the tube via the (main) western ticket gates (under the large advertising screens), head immediately right through the glass doors (do not go up the main five escalator bank to the surface) and up the escalators (there are three escalators here, two face the peak direction: up in the morning, down in the afternoon). Left through the glass doors at the top of the escalators and you will find yourself at Brown's Florist on the map mentioned above. Walk straight down to Goldsmiths Jewellers and turn left. Proceed as far as Whittard. Turn right at the Whittard corner and walk straight, through the next set of glass doors. You are then on the walkway to Crossrail. It's shown as a dotted line on the map but has been open from this time last year. From the eastern side, a similar move past Pret A Manger, making a left at Hotel Chocolat will also work. I have used the shop names as in the map link. However, the turnover of shops in the complex is quite high and many have changed or moved since 2015.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 31, 2017 22:52:44 GMT
I am familiar with that route, but I think there is a road crossing that must be done open to the elements to get to the walkway to Crossrail. It's also far from quick, simple or (at peak shopping times) easy to go that route.
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Post by roman80 on Nov 1, 2017 20:22:51 GMT
I am familiar with that route, but I think there is a road crossing that must be done open to the elements to get to the walkway to Crossrail. It's also far from quick, simple or (at peak shopping times) easy to go that route. Spot on Chris. I went for a little wander at lunchtime today, and take back my view from yesterday it was all undercover. I'd only ever done this walk in the dark and didn't notice the open section on the lower level. I am now a bit taken aback at the lack of practical thinking involved by the architects and whoever approved the design. At roadway level there is a covered walkway from the road, North Colonnade, into the Crossrail building. However, it is impossible to reach its start without being exposed to the rain, and crossing a road. At the lower level I wrongly described as completely undercover, the opposite happens: one can get to the start of the walkway completely undercover, as I described yesterday. However, it is then an open walk into the Crossrail building, though one is walking right below the covered walkway I just described above. The lower level walk is exposed because while the path is below the walkway, the exact area below the walkway footprint is hollowed out so one can see the water below. Hence, one is walking one level below the covered walkway but not directly under it, instead either side of its shadow. I find it amazing such basic common sense is not applied when designing or approving these things. It even gets worse. At the lower level, left and right there are two covered sets of stairs leading up to the road and footpath above (North Colonnade). They do not emerge under the covered walkway but straight out into the rain exposed footpath. Amazing. Meanwhile, back towards thread topic, tonight at 545pm it took 19 minutes from entering the ticket gates at Canary Wharf until I managed to get on a westbound train. Over the past twenty years I have observed early November is the worst for crowding at Canary Wharf as no one is on holiday. However, this broke all previous records. Yet, I was still lucky. Those a few minutes behind me were still locked out of the station by the time I boarded my train.
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