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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 11:14:23 GMT
I have a couple of questions regarding London Underground staff. Hopefully these are too generic to be sensitive but please let me know if they are.
1) How do LU staff pass to and fro through the ticket barriers at stations? I have seen some staff use what looks like an Oyster card to do this, and assume this is something given to all staff, but any details would be welcome.
2) What did staff use prior to Oyster cards? Was there a ticket that also opened station barriers? If so, what was printed on the ticket? (I'm especially interested in what these tickets looked like in the 1970s.)
Many thanks!
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Post by Tubeboy on Feb 24, 2017 11:21:23 GMT
We use our staff pass, which is an oyster card variation but opens the gates as many times as you wish! Prior to the Oyster card we used to have a paper pass, like an old paper ticket but of a slightly more hardwearing material, more like card if I recall. I cant remember what it looks like. We also have a gate key on our key bunch which when inserted into the gate lock opens the gate.
We get an Oyster pass when we join the company along with a gate key when we first start work after training.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 24, 2017 11:59:21 GMT
2) What did staff use prior to Oyster cards? Was there a ticket that also opened station barriers? If so, what was printed on the ticket? (I'm especially interested in what these tickets looked like in the 1970s.) Many thanks! Staff Passes that open the station ticket barriers only came in with the UTS Underground Ticketing System, prior to that a wave of Staff Pass to the ever present Attendant was required. (automatic barriers at most stations only installed with UTS) |
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Post by revupminster on Feb 24, 2017 17:05:33 GMT
This is the seventies type. Maybe someone can make it visible to all <<rincew1nd >> Thank you REV  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 17:18:49 GMT
We use our staff pass, which is an oyster card variation but opens the gates as many times as you wish! Prior to the Oyster card we used to have a paper pass, like an old paper ticket but of a slightly more hardwearing material, more like card if I recall. I cant remember what it looks like. We also have a gate key on our key bunch which when inserted into the gate lock opens the gate. We get an Oyster pass when we join the company along with a gate key when we first start work after training. Thanks for the info! Am I right in thinking that a gate key would work on any ticket barrier at any station, or are they specific to each station? 2) What did staff use prior to Oyster cards? Was there a ticket that also opened station barriers? If so, what was printed on the ticket? (I'm especially interested in what these tickets looked like in the 1970s.) Many thanks! Staff Passes that open the station ticket barriers only came in with the UTS Underground Ticketing System, prior to that a wave of Staff Pass to the ever present Attendant was required. (automatic barriers at most stations only installed with UTS) Thank you! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 17:22:36 GMT
Fantastic - thanks very much for this! |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 24, 2017 17:24:13 GMT
We use our staff pass, which is an oyster card variation but opens the gates as many times as you wish! Prior to the Oyster card we used to have a paper pass, like an old paper ticket but of a slightly more hardwearing material, more like card if I recall. I cant remember what it looks like. We also have a gate key on our key bunch which when inserted into the gate lock opens the gate. We get an Oyster pass when we join the company along with a gate key when we first start work after training. Thanks for the info! Am I right in thinking that a gate key would work on any ticket barrier at any station, or are they specific to each station? There's three types of gates, and thus three types of gate key. Any key will open any gate of the same type. (Pneumatic, E1 and E2 for the geeks. E1 keys will also open E2 gates, but not vice versa) Additionally, gates can be opened from the Station control unit (SCU) or using a certain code on the stanchion keypad. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 17:31:44 GMT
Thanks for the info! Am I right in thinking that a gate key would work on any ticket barrier at any station, or are they specific to each station? There's three types of gates, and thus three types of gate key. Any key will open any gate of the same type. (Pneumatic, E1 and E2 for the geeks. E1 keys will also open E2 gates, but not vice versa) Additionally, gates can be opened from the Station control unit (SCU) or using a certain code on the stanchion keypad. Thank you! |
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Post by sawb on Feb 24, 2017 18:17:38 GMT
Some, but not all, gates can also have their direction changed in the SCU. It's also from the SCU that you would open and close a gate or gates to let through a large crowd, for example school parties
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Post by Deep Level on Feb 24, 2017 20:25:10 GMT
Isn't there a keyhole behind the little LU roundel on the barriers where a key can be used to open the barriers or did I see that in a dream?  |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 24, 2017 21:31:17 GMT
Isn't there a keyhole behind the little LU roundel on the barriers where a key can be used to open the barriers or did I see that in a dream? Yes - for "one shot release" of the paddles (assuming my addled memory is working).  |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 24, 2017 21:42:17 GMT
I have a couple of questions regarding London Underground staff. Hopefully these are too generic to be sensitive but please let me know if they are. 1) How do LU staff pass to and fro through the ticket barriers at stations? I have seen some staff use what looks like an Oyster card to do this, and assume this is something given to all staff, but any details would be welcome. 2) What did staff use prior to Oyster cards? Was there a ticket that also opened station barriers? If so, what was printed on the ticket? (I'm especially interested in what these tickets looked like in the 1970s.) Many thanks! 1. Staff will use their staff Oyster Card. This is given to all TfL staff as a benefit related to their employment. IIRC it's not a employment contract entitlement as TfL can withdraw the facility if they find it is not being used in accordance with the rules. Anyone with an ounce of sense makes sure their Staff Pass is well looked after and the rules are not broken. (I am sure I'll be corrected if I have the contractual aspect wrong). 2. In the past, before smart ticketing, staff had a magnetically encoded Staff Pass. I recall this was printed on a plastic card which fractured if you bashed it clumsily on the gate stanchion rather than inserting it in the ticket slot (wonder how I know this?!!  ). These passes were not as robust as smartcards are and staff working on gatelines were given "gateline permits" to avoid excessive wear and tear on their personal issue Staff Pass. I can't remember what came before the UTS Plastic Staff Passes as I was not in possession of a staff pass before then. Given the limited number of ticket gates before then and a staffed ticket collector's box at all stations then a paper or card document no doubt sufficed. Some of us (!) were lucky enough to take part in early smartcard trials so we got very early versions of the Oyster Card to get us through ticket gates or on to buses in the trial areas. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 24, 2017 23:06:18 GMT
Isn't there a keyhole behind the little LU roundel on the barriers where a key can be used to open the barriers or did I see that in a dream? Yes - for "one shot release" of the paddles (assuming my addled memory is working). Only on E1 gates. On non-TfL variants this tends to be the Cubic (supplier) logo. E2 gates have this on the side, and I *believe* the same goes for pneumatics (or, the "original" UTS gates). |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 24, 2017 23:08:25 GMT
Some, but not all, gates can also have their direction changed in the SCU. It's also from the SCU that you would open and close a gate or gates to let through a large crowd, for example school parties Certainly on LU all gates are operated solely by the SCU. Wide aisle gates can have their direction set via the stanchion, but standard gates cannot. The same is not true for NR gates of the same make (generally E2s) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 3:21:22 GMT
I have a couple of questions regarding London Underground staff. Hopefully these are too generic to be sensitive but please let me know if they are. 1) How do LU staff pass to and fro through the ticket barriers at stations? I have seen some staff use what looks like an Oyster card to do this, and assume this is something given to all staff, but any details would be welcome. 2) What did staff use prior to Oyster cards? Was there a ticket that also opened station barriers? If so, what was printed on the ticket? (I'm especially interested in what these tickets looked like in the 1970s.) Many thanks! 1. Staff will use their staff Oyster Card. This is given to all TfL staff as a benefit related to their employment. IIRC it's not a employment contract entitlement as TfL can withdraw the facility if they find it is not being used in accordance with the rules. Anyone with an ounce of sense makes sure their Staff Pass is well looked after and the rules are not broken. (I am sure I'll be corrected if I have the contractual aspect wrong). 2. In the past, before smart ticketing, staff had a magnetically encoded Staff Pass. I recall this was printed on a plastic card which fractured if you bashed it clumsily on the gate stanchion rather than inserting it in the ticket slot (wonder how I know this?!! ). These passes were not as robust as smartcards are and staff working on gatelines were given "gateline permits" to avoid excessive wear and tear on their personal issue Staff Pass. I can't remember what came before the UTS Plastic Staff Passes as I was not in possession of a staff pass before then. Given the limited number of ticket gates before then and a staffed ticket collector's box at all stations then a paper or card document no doubt sufficed. Some of us (!) were lucky enough to take part in early smartcard trials so we got very early versions of the Oyster Card to get us through ticket gates or on to buses in the trial areas. First thing I was told when I joined LU do not misuse the staff pass |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 10:43:13 GMT
1. Staff will use their staff Oyster Card. This is given to all TfL staff as a benefit related to their employment. IIRC it's not a employment contract entitlement as TfL can withdraw the facility if they find it is not being used in accordance with the rules. Anyone with an ounce of sense makes sure their Staff Pass is well looked after and the rules are not broken. (I am sure I'll be corrected if I have the contractual aspect wrong). 2. In the past, before smart ticketing, staff had a magnetically encoded Staff Pass. I recall this was printed on a plastic card which fractured if you bashed it clumsily on the gate stanchion rather than inserting it in the ticket slot (wonder how I know this?!! ). These passes were not as robust as smartcards are and staff working on gatelines were given "gateline permits" to avoid excessive wear and tear on their personal issue Staff Pass. I can't remember what came before the UTS Plastic Staff Passes as I was not in possession of a staff pass before then. Given the limited number of ticket gates before then and a staffed ticket collector's box at all stations then a paper or card document no doubt sufficed. Some of us (!) were lucky enough to take part in early smartcard trials so we got very early versions of the Oyster Card to get us through ticket gates or on to buses in the trial areas. First thing I was told when I joined LU do not misuse the staff pass Lots of interesting and useful info here, so thanks to everyone. Out of curiosity, what counts as misuse of the staff pass? Are staff limited to where they can use it, or is it network-wide? |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 25, 2017 11:37:04 GMT
Giving it to someone else, allowing others through the barriers outside the course of duty, attempting to use it on services on which it is not valid, etc.
This is not an exhaustive list.
As mentioned, our pass doubles up as our travel pass, which is valid on all TfL services and some NR routes. It is not wildly dissimilar from a Z1-9WS Travelcard in that respect, and as such should be looked after accordingly. It can be withdrawn at any time.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 25, 2017 14:03:16 GMT
Presumably some form of gateline pass must exist to allow someone who works on a gateline to do their job in the event their pass is taken away?
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 25, 2017 17:02:05 GMT
Theoretically, yes! Every station (so the theory goes) has a handful of 'emergency' Oyster cards, working just like a staff pass but strictly for use only at the station or group of stations at which they're held. They're signed out via a manager and are supposed to be returned at the end of the shift.
I've never seen one. I've never heard of one. It's possible that they don't actually exist, but I wouldn't say for certain.
In reality, staff without a pass will use either a UTS gate key or enter the code I mentioned previously (or use the SCU). All staff should have gate keys as they are also used to open station closure boards in an emergency.
(Speaking from experience... it's a faff to work a gate line without a pass!)
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 25, 2017 17:22:34 GMT
(Pneumatic, E1 and E2 for the geeks. E1 keys will also open E2 gates, but not vice versa) I realise that there should probably be a little more explanation here between the three types. It's not come up, but it could be relevant... Pneumatic gates are the 'original' UTS gates, rolled out as part of that project from the late 1980s onwards. These will start to disappear over the next few years as the 'air mains' are progressively removed from stations, and as they become less reliable. They're (obviously) very distinctive in looks and sounds. I'll certainly miss the 'CLUNK PPSSSHHHHH' when they've gone! 
Piccadilly Circus Underground station by bowroaduk, on Flickr E1 gates followed in the late 1990s, just pre-dating the roll-out of Oyster as I understand it. These gates reached "fame" as the musical variety that "performed" Blur's Song 2 at North Greenwich. These gates are also widespread outside of London as part of other Cubic installations. 
Hammersmith (Met) Underground station by bowroaduk, on Flickr Finally, E2 gates are the 'current' generation, but in themselves are now ~10 years old. They're the more compact version, also widely used in other Cubic installations, and also form the basis for the Wide Aisle Gates (WAGs - pictured on the right, and in the middle). 
Concourse - Tottenham Court Road by Jack Gordon, on Flickr Prior to the introduction of WAGs many stations had (and still do have) manual, magnetic gates. These are released either via a rotary switch on the SCU, or using the UTS key on the gatepost. [Duplicated in 'Future Ticket Project (FTP) and ITSO]...staff passes are not valid on non-TfL services, so there'd be no benefits to issuing them on Oyster. They also don't seek to create logical journeys in the same way a normal Oyster will - they literally just tell the gate to open. It's worth mentioning that all TfL staff get the light blue staff pass, as well as a dark green nominee pass for their spouse. This pass has the same validity as a staff pass, but does not work on the same gate multiple times - in other words, it does look to create logical journeys. Bus drivers have their own version of the staff (and nominee) pass - I believe this gives free travel on all TfL services but *not* the NR routes also covered. I'm not 100% sure, but I have no doubts that someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Outside of TfL land, there's a lot of differentiation between TOCs and what they issue their staff. Some (such as GWR) still issue the plastic magnetic passes, others (c2c are one I believe) issue them on the same style of ITSO card as issued to customers. This is the railway industry, don't expect any sort of coherency! This is what the 'original' Oyster staff pass looked like, too (plus an accompanying photocard) - the latest version has a white roundel. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 18:04:29 GMT
Thanks very much for this illustrated explanation!
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Post by rsdworker on Feb 26, 2017 1:06:11 GMT
the magnetic manual gate can be operated by ticket clerk - which he presses button behind ticket window - i have seen this at sttaion
which caues orange light on top of gate post to flash to tell that gate is unlocked
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 26, 2017 17:39:06 GMT
1990s version of UTS Gate Permit:   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 20:28:21 GMT
Mods - it may be safest just to Delete this Thread entirely - the whole lot. Please do not delete this thread as it has been very useful and informative for me. Dstock7080 - thank you for the images of the 1996 gate permit. |
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Post by kesmet on Feb 26, 2017 23:40:59 GMT
A question on staff passes - I frequently see (because I use public transport a lot, not necessarily because it happens an awful lot!) staff using passes to let passengers through the gates when something doesn't work. I presume that that is permitted, and doesn't count as mis-use of the pass?
But what about PAYG Oyster users? They won't have touched in, so would normally get a maximum fare (whatever that happened to be. I'm sure that nowadays there are some clever behind-the-scenes things that can happen with refunding accidental maximum fare journeys, but how does that work? And what should a normal passenger do if their Oyster fails, they're let through the gates, and they don't get an automatic refund - how would they go about proving that they started their journey where they claim they would? (If they even noticed the extra charge, that is!)
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Post by Chris M on Feb 27, 2017 0:29:53 GMT
Tree times I've been let through gatelines when I was using PAYG, twice it was because the gates didn't open when they should have done and the other was the result of (I think) the staff member misunderstanding what had happened or what the correct resolution should be. I can't remember which order they happened in, so the order below is arbitrary:
One occasion, I got a code 94 (communication error → try again) then a code 21 (double entry attempted). So I found the attendant, mentioned this and they let me through the gate. I tapped out normally at the other end, checked my history and I had a point A to point B journey as I should have done (I can't remember what the journey was).
Another time, I think the gate mistook the gap between me and the person in front as the gap after me and so closed the gates in front of me and I again got a code 21 when I tried again (this was evening rush hour in Zone 1, possibly Old Street, so people were streaming through the gates and it probably got out of synch). Again when I tapped out I checked my Oyster history and the journey recorded was correct.
The other occasion, I was attempting to make a journey from Pontoon Dock to Gloucester Road. I got to the platform at Pontoon Dock only to then hear an announcement that services were suspended on that branch (I don't remember why). So I returned to street level and attempted to tap out, but it only said "enter" again (no gates, just validators at Pontoon Dock). I then took a bus to Canning Town and spoke to the person in the ticket office there, but I'm not sure they understood exactly what had happened. I presume they thought that the Oyster journey I started at Pontoon Dock would still be open, so let me through the manual gate. When I got to Gloucester Road I tapped out and checked my journey history. I found I had two incomplete journeys which the person in the ticket office kindly resolved for me (into a single Pontoon Dock to Gloucester Road journey, I can't remember whether I ended up paying for the bus or not).
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 27, 2017 2:50:06 GMT
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Post by grahamhewett on Feb 27, 2017 8:23:38 GMT
@chris M - I have had a similar experience in using my staff Oyster; for example, when going through the barriers only to find that the service is disrupted and then trying to exit again immediately. I was told there is a time delay built in to prevent closely successive entries/exits, but it would be nice to have that confirmed.
BTW does anyone have experience of trying to persuade staff to operate LU barriers with a BR staff pass (which is a simple "dumb" piece of plastic these days, although it's not so long ago that it was a rather nice silver medallion!) - there are quite a few LU routes which had been transferred,sometimes long ago, from BR (eg the W&C or even KX to Moorgate) where the Rail Staff Travel website assures us that BR staff pass holders can travel free. I have never tried to gain entry using my "BR Status Pass", and always relied on my staff Oyster, but given the obscurity of some of the available options, I can't help feeling that the LU staff would be utterly amazed/baffled...
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Post by philthetube on Feb 27, 2017 15:01:18 GMT
I have used my staff oyster to allow people through barriers when thee has been no one else about, then immediately used it again for myself, and I don't work on stations.
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Post by philthetube on Feb 28, 2017 4:53:24 GMT
I might be wrong but I don't think train staff had any sort of gate pass prior to oyster and they had to show their staff ID to be let through gates.
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). These passes were not as robust as smartcards are and staff working on gatelines were given "gateline permits" to avoid excessive wear and tear on their personal issue Staff Pass. I can't remember what came before the UTS Plastic Staff Passes as I was not in possession of a staff pass before then. Given the limited number of ticket gates before then and a staffed ticket collector's box at all stations then a paper or card document no doubt sufficed.
