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Post by phoenixcronin on Jan 22, 2017 17:54:16 GMT
On which stocks does the Emergency Alarm actually activate the Emergency Brakes? I've noticed that on the 92 stock the green "Emergency Instructions" sticker says something to the effect of "The train will stop automatically if any part of the train is still in a station......", but I have no idea about other stocks.
Presumably ATO equipped trains are able to tell where they are in relation to the platform?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 18:03:04 GMT
I think they are all over ridden for safety reasons as it's more practical to stop at a station rather in the middle of no where or in a middle of a tunnel
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Post by 100andthirty on Jan 22, 2017 18:21:23 GMT
On which stocks does the Emergency Alarm actually activate the Emergency Brakes? I've noticed that on the 92 stock the green "Emergency Instructions" sticker says something to the effect of "The train will stop automatically if any part of the train is still in a station......", but I have no idea about other stocks.
Presumably ATO equipped trains are able to tell where they are in relation to the platform?
The "green instructions" apply to all trains. The trains will brake and stop (or carry on) automatically if they are automatically driven. On manual lines the train operator carries out this role and has markers on the tunnels or lineside to indicate whether "any part of the train is in the station". |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 18:40:24 GMT
On the Victoria Line, I think there was a block joint on the track set at one train length from the platform headwall. if the handle was pulled before the driver cab of the train passed that block joint on the track, the system will perform an emergency stop, otherwise it will proceed the the following station - can someone confirm that this is the case.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jan 22, 2017 18:51:28 GMT
On the Victoria Line, I think there was a block joint on the track set at one train length from the platform headwall. if the handle was pulled before the driver cab of the train passed that block joint on the track, the system will perform an emergency stop, otherwise it will proceed the the following station - can someone confirm that this is the case. I would have thought it should have been set somewhat less than a train length into the tunnel as otherwise the train would stop a short distance into the tunnel - surely the worst possible case. Which brings to mind the thought: If there were to be a fire (or major smoke event), surely the current way of working means that passengers would have to move between carriages using the connecting doors - which carry a warning along the lines of: 'Danger of Death if used whilst the train is in motion'. Does this situation reflect extreme rarity of fires/smoke events compared to all other reasons for activating the alarm? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 19:01:11 GMT
On which stocks does the Emergency Alarm actually activate the Emergency Brakes?
The short answer is all of them. The exception is that on the ATC lines (Central, Jubilee, Northern, Victoria), the brakes will only apply if any part of the train is within platform limits when the handle is pulled. On the Victoria Line, I think there was a block joint on the track set at one train length from the platform headwall. if the handle was pulled before the driver cab of the train passed that block joint on the track, the system will perform an emergency stop, otherwise it will proceed the the following station - can someone confirm that this is the case. That is not the case now, nor was it prior to resignalling. |
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 22, 2017 19:14:37 GMT
On the Victoria Line, I think there was a block joint on the track set at one train length from the platform headwall. if the handle was pulled before the driver cab of the train passed that block joint on the track, the system will perform an emergency stop, otherwise it will proceed the the following station - can someone confirm that this is the case. I would have thought it should have been set somewhat less than a train length into the tunnel as otherwise the train would stop a short distance into the tunnel - surely the worst possible case. Which brings to mind the thought: If there were to be a fire (or major smoke event), surely the current way of working means that passengers would have to move between carriages using the connecting doors - which carry a warning along the lines of: 'Danger of Death if used whilst the train is in motion'. Does this situation reflect extreme rarity of fires/smoke events compared to all other reasons for activating the alarm? no, somebody was killed trying to get out between cars on a moving train |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jan 22, 2017 19:22:08 GMT
I would have thought it should have been set somewhat less than a train length into the tunnel as otherwise the train would stop a short distance into the tunnel - surely the worst possible case. Which brings to mind the thought: If there were to be a fire (or major smoke event), surely the current way of working means that passengers would have to move between carriages using the connecting doors - which carry a warning along the lines of: 'Danger of Death if used whilst the train is in motion'. Does this situation reflect extreme rarity of fires/smoke events compared to all other reasons for activating the alarm? no, somebody was killed trying to get out between cars on a moving train I don't understand to what the 'no' refers. The 'situation' I referred to in my last paragraph was that of not stopping the train in tunnels. If there are 100 emergency activations for other reasons for every one due to a fire, it may make sense to potentially put passengers at risk by keeping the train moving. |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jan 22, 2017 19:35:01 GMT
On the Victoria Line, I think there was a block joint on the track set at one train length from the platform headwall. if the handle was pulled before the driver cab of the train passed that block joint on the track, the system will perform an emergency stop, otherwise it will proceed the the following station - can someone confirm that this is the case. I would have thought it should have been set somewhat less than a train length into the tunnel as otherwise the train would stop a short distance into the tunnel - surely the worst possible case. Which brings to mind the thought: If there were to be a fire (or major smoke event), surely the current way of working means that passengers would have to move between carriages using the connecting doors - which carry a warning along the lines of: 'Danger of Death if used whilst the train is in motion'. Does this situation reflect extreme rarity of fires/smoke events compared to all other reasons for activating the alarm? The only real situation where it's envisaged to be essential to stop the train upon leaving a platform is if a dragging is in progress. Generally speaking if in doubt the driver will stop first, and worry about exactly where the rear of the train is located once the train is stopped. It's all about balancing relative risk. In reality most PEAs tend to be activated in station platforms anyway. There are a whole list of reasons why it's best for the train to continue in most cases. You really don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere, especially if the train is packed and the driver will have difficulty getting back to reset it. I remember a situation on a mainline train when someone was having a heart attack, and a well-intentioned person pulled the chain. Unfortunately they did it outside a station just as the train was on a crossover, so they blocked up the whole job right in the middle of the morning peak, and it took forever for the driver to get back to reset it. Literally 10 or 15 minutes before any kind of response was initiated as a result. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 22, 2017 19:46:49 GMT
On S Stock, if a PEA Passenger Emergency Alarm is operated within station limits (i.e. 7 or 8-cars) the emergency brakes will apply and cannot be overridden.
Once beyond station limits, it is possible to override the emergency brake but procedures say the train must be stopped first.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 22, 2017 22:36:01 GMT
no, somebody was killed trying to get out between cars on a moving train I don't understand to what the 'no' refers. The 'situation' I referred to in my last paragraph was that of not stopping the train in tunnels. If there are 100 emergency activations for other reasons for every one due to a fire, it may make sense to potentially put passengers at risk by keeping the train moving. The Danger of death message was the result of somebody using an interconnecting door to get out between cars on a moving train |
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Post by rummer on Jan 23, 2017 10:23:31 GMT
On the Piccadilly line the brakes will apply no matter where you are, If your within station limits you deal with the alarm. If between stations there is an override button on the floor that you need to keep your foot on to get forward movement.
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Post by fish7373 on Jan 23, 2017 12:39:44 GMT
On the Piccadilly line the brakes will apply no matter where you are, If your within station limits you deal with the alarm. If between stations there is an override button on the floor that you need to keep your foot on to get forward movement. This is right and don`t forget talk back as well before using foot switch on floor and all stations at the end of platforms have post with car numbers out of platforms whether stop and still in platform or carry on to next station. |
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Post by jamesb on Jan 27, 2017 11:08:03 GMT
On the central line I think that there is a timer that starts from when the train leaves the station.
? if the passenger alarm is activated within ? 17 seconds the brakes will automatically apply
i don't know if this timer system is also on the other ATO lines.
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Post by up1989 on Feb 2, 2017 20:03:04 GMT
On the Northen Im unsure of a timer but we have a Pea cut out switch on the Bulkhead wall behind the driver to cut out the pea brake application if needed. If in ato and in-between stations the train won't stop anyway but carry on to the next station.
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