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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 13:59:31 GMT
As kids, we used to try to guess the destination first of each District line train coming in, colour helped us, becuase Wimbledons were always silver coming through NHG and Putney Bridges were always red. But of course some "nerdy" kids  had an advantage because they had learned the six lamp marker light codes, while the rest of were still waiting to see who could make out the destination text first. I learned quite a few over the years: Wimbledon, Putney Bridge, Gloucester Road, HSK, South Ken, Edgware Road, as those were the District trains I used the most. www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Marker%20lights.htmMy question though is this, does any line still use a system of combinations of lamps on its trains to indicate destinations? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 5, 2017 14:14:21 GMT
My question though is this, does any line still use a system of combinations of lamps on its trains to indicate destinations? Yes - they're called dot matrix displays   |
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Post by peterc on Jan 5, 2017 17:50:04 GMT
I remember that I had a list of them, I think it was i my Ian Allen ABC Underground guide.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 5, 2017 17:57:03 GMT
Actually, it was a five lamp system, the sixth was never used on R Stock.
all abandoned in 1977.
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Post by brigham on Jan 5, 2017 17:59:56 GMT
On Tube stock, the middle one meant 'via the Bank', but that's all I can remember!
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Post by revupminster on Jan 5, 2017 18:10:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 21:45:50 GMT
Actually, it was a five lamp system, the sixth was never used on R Stock. all abandoned in 1977. Oh, I didn't know that. I just know that there were two rows of 3 lamps. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 21:48:31 GMT
BTW, how did the horizontal 3 lamp system work on the old silver Central Line stock, was it simply illumination and without any further significance?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 5, 2017 21:55:33 GMT
BTW, how did the horizontal 3 lamp system work on the old silver Central Line stock, was it simply illumination and without any further significance? Initially only two white headlights were fitted, a single red (low powered) stabling light was later placed alongside them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 21:57:58 GMT
Thanks. And if I remember correctly the even older red Central stock that I remember from when I was a kid had a 5 lamp dice five system.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 5, 2017 23:26:24 GMT
As a guard in the 1970 I had to know all the sub-surface marker light codes by heart. I can't remember them all now, especially odd bits like Mansion House!
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 7, 2017 23:17:46 GMT
On the same topic, albeit a northbound Northern Line tube train arriving at Finchley Central. I cannot be sure of the date, but it is very likely to have been in the late 1970's when I was a teenager. The photograph was taken on a 110 film camera, so it will be more grainy and less sharp than 35mm photography. Simon  1956TubeStock-FinchleyCentral[/url |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 7, 2017 23:42:14 GMT
I believe the 1956 stock - of which this is one - was the last tube stock to have these lights. As there were detail differences between the three 1956 stock trains (built by different manufacturers, like the 1986 stock) no doubt someone will be along shortly to identify which of the three this train is.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 7, 2017 23:58:17 GMT
I believe the 1956 stock - of which this is one - was the last tube stock to have these lights. As there were detail differences between the three 1956 stock trains (built by different manufacturers, like the 1986 stock) no doubt someone will be along shortly to identify which of the three this train is. I can help you with the ID of this train. Alas as far as I can recall I only filmed this one of the three. Simon  1956TubeStock-BuildersPlate |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 8, 2017 16:06:17 GMT
The three 1956 stock trains differed in detail. The Gloucester train (1008/9/10/11) was the easiest to identify as it had straight rainstrips over the doors, and a beading line below the windows (car 1009).  This is the only picture I can find identified as the Birmingham train (car 1007), which was delivered several months after the other two and therefore may have had less media attention*. The roofline is similar to the Gloucester cars, being curved above the destination blind and ventilation grilles, but the grilles are not spaced from the roofline as they are in the Gloucester cars. (The ventilation grilles in both the Gloucester and M-C cars were mounted in frames, but the Birmingham ones were flush with the bodywork).  This is the Metro Cammell train, which was almost identical to the 1959 stock apart from the five-light headcode. Note that the roofline passes under the ventilation grilles and destination blind.  (car 42000, later 1002 - note this is an intermediate DM with an autocoupler), The different rooflines were easier to distinguish when they were painted black - they were originally all-over silver. The Birmingham and Gloucester ones always had a rather surprised look because of the higher rooflines over the cab. 1959 stock here for comparison  Of course, numbering, if visible, is the easiest way of distinguishing them. As built the cars were numbered M-C 40000-45000-44000-43000+42000-45001-41000 Birm 40001-45002-44001-43001+42001-45003-41001 Glos 40002-45004-44002-43002+42002-45005-41002 All cars were DMs except 44xxx (NDM) and 45xxx (trailers). Note that the last digit of each car was the same in each train, except the trailers. The 42xxx and 43xxx DMs had autocouplers. Later renumbered at the beginning of the 1959 stock 1000-2000-9001-1001+1002-2002-1003 1004-2004-9005-1005+1006-2006-1007 1008-2008-9009-1009+1010-2010-1011 Your photo appears to show the Metro-Cammell train - this photo (linkie)appears to be the same train on the same day and the car number looks like 1000, which is inconsistent with a BRCW builder's plate. However, the 1956 stock units were fully compatible with each other, (and with the production series (1959) stock), so I would hazard a guess that this was a mixed formation: with a 4-car unit of M-C and a 3-car of Birmingham RC&W. EDIT - the link doesn't seem to work, either as a link or an embedded picture. It shows what appear to be the same train as in Simon's picture upthread, (same reporting number and everything) but at High Barnet rather than Finchley Central. *Brian Hardy lists dates as follows M-C 3-car delivered 21/6/57, 4-car 23/7/57, into service 9/9/57 GRCW 4-car delivered 12/7/57, 3-car 8/8/57, into service 7/10/57 BRCW 3-car delivered 4/12/57, 4-car 7/1/58, into service 14/4/58 |
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Post by stapler on Jan 8, 2017 16:32:20 GMT
Presumably the 5-light system was so that signalmen could recognise a train in the dark (and for when the motorman forgot to change the blind?
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Post by fish7373 on Jan 9, 2017 17:47:14 GMT
My question though is this, does any line still use a system of combinations of lamps on its trains to indicate destinations? Yes - they're called dot matrix displays 73 t/stock is not dot matrix it is LED Destination. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 9, 2017 21:27:36 GMT
73 t/stock is not dot matrix it is LED Destination. Well, LEDs are lights! |
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Post by brigham on Jan 10, 2017 9:12:47 GMT
In what way does a matrix of LEDs not constitute a 'dot-matrix' display?
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Post by fish7373 on Jan 10, 2017 12:01:17 GMT
In what way does a matrix of LEDs not constitute a 'dot-matrix' display? May be its how small the dot`s are very small same as a LED television. inside car displays are dot-matrix'. |
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Post by countryman on Jan 11, 2017 9:36:48 GMT
Presumably the 5-light system was so that signalmen could recognise a train in the dark (and for when the motorman forgot to change the blind? How did the lights get changed. I assume a set of switches or shutters. If so, the motorman could just as easily forget to reset the lights. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 11, 2017 11:52:31 GMT
How did the lights get changed. I assume a set of switches or shutters. If so, the motorman could just as easily forget to reset the lights. shutters on the various Q Stock, Standard Tube, 1938 Tube, CO/CP Stock; individual switches on R Stock and 1956 Tube Stock. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 11, 2017 13:16:35 GMT
shutters on the various Q Stock, Standard Tube, 1938 Tube, CO/CP Stock; individual switches on R Stock and 1956 Tube Stock. Very visible on early Q stock, as the shutters were mounted externally  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 14:23:01 GMT
Beautiful photo, is that the Transport Museum in London?
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Post by stapler on Jan 11, 2017 14:32:11 GMT
I can't remember -- were Inner Rail and Outer Rail the same or a different lamp code?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 11, 2017 17:17:04 GMT
Beautiful photo, is that the Transport Museum in London? It looks like the LT Museum in the old Flower Market building at Covent Garden. The old Transport Museum in Clapham (a former tram depot) closed in c1973, with its LT exhibits moved first to Syon House and then in 1980 to Covent Garden, whilst the BR exhibits went to the new (or rather, vastly expanded) York Railway Museum. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 11, 2017 18:25:36 GMT
I can't remember -- were Inner Rail and Outer Rail the same or a different lamp code? the same code, bottom left only. |
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Post by countryman on Jan 11, 2017 18:45:34 GMT
I have just come across my Ian Allen book dating from 31st July 1965.According to that;
Circle, District and Met have a common set of codes, many having multiple meanings; eg All 5 lights Barking Sidings both directions and Kensington Olympia. One code is used for both inner and outer rail on the Circle Line. There are separate codes for Q stock on the East London Line, which duplicate codes on the 'main line'.
Piccadilly has only 4 lights in a square pattern, some with different meaning depending on eastbound/westbound.
Nothern Line. 5 lights, all lit at all times.
Bakerloo Line. 5 lights (like a No5 on a dice) with the central light lit on all destinations.
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Post by revupminster on Jan 11, 2017 22:41:42 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 11, 2017 23:29:07 GMT
I've looked through my films and alas I did not film anything else of this 1956 tube stock train.
Assuming that where I was standing (whilst waiting for this train) at Finchley Central was on the part of the platform served by the second half of the train so it is very possible that I filmed the car ID of the car I travelled in and then walked to the former front (the northern end) of the train for another photo... not realising that this came from a different train builder.
Simon
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had an advantage because they had learned the six lamp marker light codes, while the rest of were still waiting to see who could make out the destination text first.
