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Post by londonstuff on Dec 30, 2016 17:23:07 GMT
I remember years ago going somewhere towards the far end of the Jubilee line where there was a migration point between traditional signalling and the new TBTC and the blue proceed to TBTC signal was present. It took ages for the whole line to go completely TBTC and there were problems with it all over the place but in the end I think they bit the bullet and decided to switch over fully and solve any problems as and when they came up. Around that point all the traditional signals were bagged over and, I think, for the main part are still extant. At Neasden on the n/b today I saw both traditional red signals but also the blue - what's the reason that they are uncovered and working? Something to do with the depot?  29th December 2016 by Michael, on Flickr  29th December 2016 by Michael, on Flickr |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 19:34:25 GMT
I remember years ago going somewhere towards the far end of the Jubilee line where there was a migration point between traditional signalling and the new TBTC and the blue proceed to TBTC signal was present. It took ages for the whole line to go completely TBTC and there were problems with it all over the place but in the end I think they bit the bullet and decided to switch over fully and solve any problems as and when they came up. Around that point all the traditional signals were bagged over and, I think, for the main part are still extant. At Neasden on the n/b today I saw both traditional red signals but also the blue - what's the reason that they are uncovered and working? Something to do with the depot? The 'legacy' signals visible in your photos are decommissioned and bagged up - albeit some of the 'bags' have long since fallen/blown off. The three aspect signals are provided because platforms 2 and 3 at Neasden are signalled for both tripcock and TBTC-equipped trains. Red means all trains must stop. Blue means TBTC-fitted trains may proceed in accordance with cab signalling, either towards Wembley Park (in ATO or Protected Manual) or Neasden Depot (Klondyke) in PM. Information on the Train Operator Display (TOD) in the cab informs the driver where the train is being routed to. The direction indicator (in your photo showing 'WEP' - for Wembley Park) supplements this. The top aspect is green and is for tripcock-equipped trains proceeding onto the Northbound Met. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 19:36:30 GMT
Red is stop blue I believe is when driven in manual it's safe to proceed. I've had no training on the new system as yet but I presume all the moves in and out the depot are all manually driven. I also remember somewhere in my head that when a train enters service with CBTC or TBTC the train has to be driven manually for a set distance for the system to recognise the train is CBTC or TBTC equipped. If it sees sections (like track circuits) gone down from a presence of a train it's classed as a alien train ( I believe they are changing that term for CBTC) Of course I could be completely wrong if so I will delete the post and I will stick to conventional signalling  |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 30, 2016 19:48:40 GMT
...it's classed as a alien train ( I believe they are changing that term for CBTC) I love the idea of an alien train! Here's hoping they don't change it! |
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Post by londonstuff on Dec 30, 2016 20:04:49 GMT
I can understand why sections of track might be dual fitted, especially with the proximity to Neasden depot. However, trains with tripcocks have to come through somewhere to get to Neasden - presumably off the SSR more often than not. If that's the case are there other stations with this slightly more standard signalling installed? It kind of wouldn't make sense for just one station signalled like this unless there's a crossover from a conventionally signalled line to an ATO. Looking at my (out-of-date) Quail 5, there doesn't seem to be anywhere like this between, say, Finchley Road and Neasden. I know very little about this so I might well be talking from my behind, so I appreciate your much more learned input! Edit: Alien train - Google it [lol]  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 20:08:58 GMT
I've had no training on the new system as yet but I presume all the moves in and out the depot are all manually driven. You can see the no ATO to depot signs at Neasden. Usually moves into depots and stabling sidings (not reversing sidings) are PM, however I understand at Highgate, there used to be no ATO to depot (Highgate Sidings aren't really a depot, but that's what it said on the sign), however now you can drive in ATO up to the end of TBTC, at which point, yes, depot rules apply and it's RM onto your siding road. I believe one of the deciding factors is walkways, High Barnet sidings have to be entered and exited in PM too, but there is TBTC throughout, it has to do with the walkboards I think. I also remember somewhere in my head that when a train enters service with CBTC or TBTC the train has to be driven manually for a set distance for the system to recognise the train is CBTC or TBTC equipped. If it sees sections (like track circuits) gone down from a presence of a train it's classed as a alien train ( I believe they are changing that term for CBTC) Of course I could be completely wrong if so I will delete the post and I will stick to conventional signalling Sort of, it depends. If you're starting somewhere like High Barnet, where there's TBTC throughout, the train shouldn't need to enter the system. You do have to drive PM to 33 road (shunt neck), but as I say, I don't think that has to do with entering the system, it's just that Auto is not permitted within those particular sidings. If, though, you're entering service from somewhere like Morden depot, which is not equipped with TBTC, then obviously you will have to drive from wherever the train is stabled to the TBTC starts sign in RM, because there's no TBTC. Once you arrive at the TBTC starts sign, the train will enter, and you can head off in ATO so long as Auto is permitted where you happen to be, which usually it will be. There is, though, a need to check that both Vehicle On-Board Controllers are ready before you move the train, and you have to reset them there and then if they're not. If they fail to reset, you have to contact the controller. If you arrive at the TBTC starts sign and one of your VOBCs has halted, then entry checks will fail. Depending on exactly what's happened (I can't remember the details, it's something that only the VCC operator can tell if memory serves) the VOBC may or may not be likely to re-enter, and then that governs whether you can proceed in ATO/PM and re-enter the halted VOBC on the road, or whether you need to return to depot. If both have halted, again, depending on what happened, you can either proceed in RM and re-enter the VOBCs on the road, or you may have to go back to depot. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 20:36:40 GMT
I can understand why sections of track might be dual fitted, especially with the proximity to Neasden depot. However, trains with tripcocks have to come through somewhere to get to Neasden - presumably off the SSR more often than not. If that's the case are there other stations with this slightly more standard signalling installed? It kind of wouldn't make sense for just one station signalled like this unless there's a crossover from a conventionally signalled line to an ATO. Looking at my (out-of-date) Quail 5, there doesn't seem to be anywhere like this between, say, Finchley Road and Neasden. I know very little about this so I might well be talking from my behind, so I appreciate your much more learned input! At Neasden, a tripcock-fitted train can be signalled into platform 3 (southbound Jubilee) from Neasden Depot or the southbound Met. If it's also TBTC fitted it can then carry on towards Dollis Hill and beyond under TBTC signalling (the southbound starter is two aspect - red for all trains stop, blue for proceed according to cab signalling in ATO/PM). If they're not TBTC fitted, the only conventionally-signalled move available from that location is via the wrong road starter with a green aspect back across to the Northbound Met. Tripcock-fitted trains can also be signalled into Neasden platform 2 (northbound Jubilee) from Neasden Depot (Klondyke); again, if not TBTC-fitted then the only conventionally-signalled move is via the starter with a green aspect onto the Northbound Met. The other location on the Jubilee with a similar arrangement is Baker Street southbound, which has a 3 aspect starter that can show a green for tripcock trains crossing over to the Bakerloo (also blue and red aspects with same meanings already described). For Northbound moves from the Bakerloo to the Jubilee, there is a two aspect blue/red signal on the connecting line (no green aspect as it's the limit of tripcock signalling, as with the southbound starter in platform 3 at Neasden. There's a similar signal in the King's Cross Loop where the Picc's conventional signalling interfaces with Northern line TBTC. |
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Post by londonstuff on Dec 30, 2016 20:40:30 GMT
I can understand why sections of track might be dual fitted, especially with the proximity to Neasden depot. However, trains with tripcocks have to come through somewhere to get to Neasden - presumably off the SSR more often than not. If that's the case are there other stations with this slightly more standard signalling installed? It kind of wouldn't make sense for just one station signalled like this unless there's a crossover from a conventionally signalled line to an ATO. Looking at my (out-of-date) Quail 5, there doesn't seem to be anywhere like this between, say, Finchley Road and Neasden. I know very little about this so I might well be talking from my behind, so I appreciate your much more learned input! At Neasden, a tripcock-fitted train can be signalled into platform 3 (southbound Jubilee) from Neasden Depot or the southbound Met. If it's also TBTC fitted it can then carry on towards Dollis Hill and beyond under TBTC signalling (the southbound starter is two aspect - red for all trains stop, blue for proceed according to cab signalling in ATO/PM). If they're not TBTC fitted, the only conventionally-signalled move available from that location is via the wrong road starter with a green aspect back across to the Northbound Met. Tripcock-fitted trains can also be signalled into Neasden platform 2 (northbound Jubilee) from Neasden Depot (Klondyke); again, if not TBTC-fitted then the only conventionally-signalled move is via the starter with a green aspect onto the Northbound Met. The other location on the Jubilee with a similar arrangement is Baker Street southbound, which has a 3 aspect starter that can show a green for tripcock trains crossing over to the Bakerloo (also blue and red aspects with same meanings already described). For Northbound moves from the Bakerloo to the Jubilee, there is a two aspect blue/red signal on the connecting line (no green aspect as it's the limit of tripcock signalling, as with the southbound starter in platform 3 at Neasden. There's a similar signal in the King's Cross Loop where the Picc's conventional signalling interfaces with Northern line TBTC. That's absolutely fascinating as well as enlightening. I'm sure that info would only be available here - thanks so much |
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Post by bassmike on Dec 31, 2016 12:22:41 GMT
What about the alien wearing a brown coat in seat on right?
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