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Post by alpinejohn on Dec 11, 2016 16:04:25 GMT
For a new route I found the "Tube Exits" app is pretty helpful to work out the best route, where to change and which part of the train lines up best with the exit you will need, that way the crowd is behind you and you can often get a clear run through the interchange.
Threads split.
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 12, 2016 1:10:49 GMT
However, it's arguably apps like that which contribute to at least some of the problem. Using it to avoid common exit locations is far more useful if you want to avoid the crush. Experience tells me that many of whom moan about busy trains are those who refuse to move down the platform and use alternative cars.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 12, 2016 8:22:30 GMT
Using it to avoid common exit locations is far more useful if you want to avoid the crush. It's the carriage that stops nearest the exit from the platform which will empty out most, and thus have most space created.
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 13, 2016 3:26:25 GMT
Using it to avoid common exit locations is far more useful if you want to avoid the crush. It's the carriage that stops nearest the exit from the platform which will empty out most, and thus have most space created. That doesn't make any of what I've said less true. This is just as much of a problem. By waiting for that specific set of doors (or car), you're delaying the train instead of using one of the emptier cars that people will have finished from alighting from. If everyone spread evenly along the platform, and thus train, dwell times would be so much shorter.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 13, 2016 6:13:14 GMT
By waiting for that specific set of doors (or car), you're delaying the train instead of using one of the emptier cars that people will have finished from alighting from. If everyone spread evenly along the platform, and thus train, dwell times would be so much shorter. But they won't be emptier, because most regulars do chose the carriage which will stop nearest the exit at their destination station. Thus, that carriage will be the one where most space is created. People will not co-operate in reducing dwell times if the consequence is that they are unable to board the train. And yes, it does mean that that particular carriage takes longer for people to alight from, which also affects dwell times. But you can't change human nature. Unless you are prepared to build multiple exits from the platform, all equally attractive to the public, you won't solve this.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 13, 2016 8:20:44 GMT
When I used to catch a Central Line train into town from Woodford I initially got all worked up and concerned about getting the right carriage for whatever exit in London I was aiming for. Then it dawned on me that, having entered Woodford Station at the rear carriage of any train, I would end up walking the same distance of platform to the exit regardless of whether it was at Woodford or at my destination. For example, in extremis, if the exit at my destination was at the front of the train I'd walk a distance of around 8 carriages, either at the destination or at Woodford. It stops you worrying when you figure that one out.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 13, 2016 10:57:16 GMT
During the year I used the Northern Line (no, the other one) to get to work I realised this relatively early. My habit became to arrive on the platform and walk a few car lengths to a (usually) empty bench where I'd wait for a train. As it was running in I'd walk a further car length and find a seat in a relatively empty car, then I'd walk the remaining two car lengths on the platform at the other end.
Of course, if the entrance to your departure platform is the same place relative to the train as the exit from your arrival platform then any walking you do will be cancelled out - but think of the exercise!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2016 10:59:45 GMT
When I used to catch a Central Line train into town from Woodford I initially got all worked up and concerned about getting the right carriage for whatever exit in London I was aiming for. Then it dawned on me that, having entered Woodford Station at the rear carriage of any train, I would end up walking the same distance of platform to the exit regardless of whether it was at Woodford or at my destination. For example, in extremis, if the exit at my destination was at the front of the train I'd walk a distance of around 8 carriages, either at the destination or at Woodford. It stops you worrying when you figure that one out. I figured that when I commuted from Debden, but I always did the walking at Debden because that was very significantly easier than walking the same distance at Liverpool Street or Bank in the morning peak.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 13, 2016 11:07:19 GMT
When I used to catch a Central Line train into town from Woodford I initially got all worked up and concerned about getting the right carriage for whatever exit in London I was aiming for. Then it dawned on me that, having entered Woodford Station at the rear carriage of any train, I would end up walking the same distance of platform to the exit regardless of whether it was at Woodford or at my destination. For example, in extremis, if the exit at my destination was at the front of the train I'd walk a distance of around 8 carriages, either at the destination or at Woodford. It stops you worrying when you figure that one out. I figured that when I commuted from Debden, but I always did the walking at Debden because that was very significantly easier than walking the same distance at Liverpool Street or Bank in the morning peak. Ah well, that bit didn't bother me Chris. I just used to wait till it died down on the platform a bit before proceeding. I may have lost 30-40 seconds of my life that way but that didn't really matter to me a great deal either!
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Dec 13, 2016 12:01:33 GMT
As it now seems to be within the topic of the thread, I remember when 40 years ago, when commuting to Ealing Broadway in the evening peak on the Central Line, the first three carriages were rammed solid with barely room to stand, whereas the last two carriages on the same train had several seats available
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2016 12:08:12 GMT
I figured that when I commuted from Debden, but I always did the walking at Debden because that was very significantly easier than walking the same distance at Liverpool Street or Bank in the morning peak. Ah well, that bit didn't bother me Chris. I just used to wait till it died down on the platform a bit before proceeding. I may have lost 30-40 seconds of my life that way but that didn't really matter to me a great deal either! It's been a while since you went to those stations in the morning peak then as not only do you have the people getting off the train you also have a platform full of people wanting to get on it - you'd have to wait until after the rush hour for an easy walk.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 13, 2016 14:10:52 GMT
It's been a while since you went to those stations in the morning peak....... You're absolutely right Chris! That's why I'm grinning!
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Post by alpinejohn on Dec 13, 2016 14:16:03 GMT
How people navigate through underground interchanges is a somewhat overlooked area of human behaviour research.
In an increasingly crowded world, understanding and predicting likely human reactions and developing effective ways to manage people flows is becoming increasingly important. A long while ago, many larger airports realised that relying on fixed printed signs was not brilliant, and they began developing dynamic signage systems to detect and divert people flows around any crowded areas within passenger terminals.
I am not sure that similar systems will work as well in underground stations where there is often a seriously limited number of routes available, and unlike an airport, many passengers will be familiar with station layouts and tend to follow their normal route, meaning fixed signs are treated as more advisory than mandatory. I am not sure if this video has already been covered on District Dave, but it does seen to hold some promise.
Safety at interchanges may become increasingly critical once CrossRail goes live and several central area interchange stations suddenly have to adapt to manage the influx of huge numbers of passenger arriving on very frequent mainline services. Currently passageways and connections within many interchange stations are already fairly crowded during much of the day, and that's just handling the existing interchange traffic. I have a feeling that critical interchanges may be yet another piece of TFL infrastructure which will require urgent improvements once the post CrossRail modified passenger flows become fully apparent, making knowledge of the tactical pinch-points even more important than now.
This interesting intra-platform arrivals hall animation shows quite clearly how important it is to head for the correct exit route, and ideally be ahead of the pack.
I only wonder how that animation would have developed if additional trainloads disembarked those platforms at predicted 24 trains per hour Elizabeth Line frequencies.
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Post by humbug on Dec 13, 2016 16:06:45 GMT
Slightly off topic - the following two things are what annoy me most about my commute:
-people that deliberately walk through the no entry sign at Bond Street interchange then have to battle against the tide of people changing from the Central to the Jubilee lines. Why do this when you have two alternate passageways?
-people that wait on the exit side of the lifts, then sneak into the lift when there is a huge queue on the other side.
-not removing backpacks on crowded trains
-people that can't count bullet points
/rant :-)
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 13, 2016 16:32:15 GMT
-not removing backpacks on crowded trains This deserves its own thread humbug...
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