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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 19, 2016 7:53:42 GMT
Several examples of institutions which have moved away from their nominal locations. Royal Holloway College (in Egham). Millwall football club (wrong side of the river) Charing Cross Hospital (in Hammersmith) Hammersmith Hospital (in Acton) However Bedford College and my father's Alma mater, the Northampton Polytechnic (later the City University) were named after the squares in which they were located - although Bedford College is now co-located with Holloway) You can add Arsenal and West Ham to that list too, the former named for the Royal Arsenal in Woolwich but now in north London and the latter now playing north of Stratford. A less obvious one is the University of St Mark and St John, now in Plymouth, but taking it's name from colleges in Chelsea and Battersea named, I believe, for local churches. Can someone confirm that 'Clapham Junction' although in Battersea was named to draw in the well off Victorians who lived around Clapham Common?
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Post by class411 on Oct 19, 2016 7:56:57 GMT
South Chelsea Schol of English which was located in Brixton Several examples of institutions which have moved away from their nominal locations. Royal Holloway College (in Egham). Millwall football club (wrong side of the river) Charing Cross Hospital (in Hammersmith) Hammersmith Hospital (in Acton)I said that Hammersmith Hospital was arguably in Shepherd's Bush (Most estate agents, for example, consider DuCane road to be Shepherd's Bush). It could be considered part of White City (which is part of Shepherd's Bush, or within Wormwood Scrubs which is part of Hammersmith and Fulham. One place it most definitely is not is Acton, as can be seen by perusing the map here (a download).
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 19, 2016 9:50:05 GMT
You can add Arsenal and West Ham to that list too, the former named for the Royal Arsenal in Woolwich but now in north London and the latter now playing north of Stratford. A less obvious one is the University of St Mark and St John, now in Plymouth, but taking it's name from colleges in Chelsea and Battersea named, I believe, for local churches. Can someone confirm that 'Clapham Junction' although in Battersea was named to draw in the well off Victorians who lived around Clapham Common? Limerick Junction is nowhere near Limerick in Ireland. Could just be the same for Clapham Junction - the junction that gets you to Clapham.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 19, 2016 10:55:18 GMT
Hammersmith Hospital (in Acton) I said that Hammersmith Hospital was arguably in Shepherd's Bush. One place it most definitely is not is Acton. Our posts crossed so I hadn't seen yours when I sent mine, so I wasn't intending to contradict you. The Hammersmith Hospital is in fact in the London Borough of the same name (Hammersmith & Fulham). But so is East Acton, which the hospital's website says is its nearest Tube station (albeit by a small margin). Could just be the same for Clapham Junction - the junction that gets you to Clapham. There were no direct services to Clapham proper for the first 150 years of Clapham Junction's history. (near enough - opened March 1863, Overground service started December 2012)
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Post by Chris M on Oct 19, 2016 13:11:31 GMT
Could just be the same for Clapham Junction - the junction that gets you to Clapham. That is why there is Stanmore Junction just north of Wembley Park. The ultimate predecessor of today's North London Line started life as the East and West India Docks and Birmingham Junction Railway. Birmingham Junction was (is) in Camden Town, where the line joined the London and Birmingham Railway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 14:31:27 GMT
There were no direct services to Clapham proper for the first 150 years of Clapham Junction's history. (near enough - opened March 1863, Overground service started December 2012) Bradshaw (April 1910) pp 282-5 shows trains from Clapham Junction to Moorgate Street, most calling at Clapham & North Stockwell (now Clapham High Street).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 14:38:30 GMT
You can add Arsenal and West Ham to that list too, the former named for the Royal Arsenal in Woolwich but now in north London and the latter now playing north of Stratford. But Stratford was part of West Ham - wasn't West Ham Town Hall there? And am I right in thinking that the Boleyn Ground was in East Ham?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 19, 2016 15:30:30 GMT
Bradshaw (April 1910) pp 282-5 shows trains from Clapham Junction to Moorgate Street, most calling at Clapham & North Stockwell (now Clapham High Street). ). So they did - hence the name of the Ludgate Lines in far off Battersea. Some of these trains started at Kingston, although that service was diverted via Tooting (previously mentioned) and Herne Hill when the link from Kingston to the SWML via Norbiton was opened - the twin tracked underpass at New Malden Junction that allowed trains in both directions to cross the SWML is a relic of that - following reallocation of the tracks in the 1930s to paired by direction, only the down line is still in use. (UP rains use the Wimbledon flyover) Not sure when the service ended, but through services to Moorgate Street must have ceased by the time the east curve at Farringdon closed in 1916. Most inner suburban services on the LSWR were electrified at around that time, but it was not until the late 1920s that the line to Holborn Vialduct was electrified.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 19, 2016 16:23:33 GMT
And am I right in thinking that the Boleyn Ground was in East Ham? You are - but the club were rather nomadic in the early days, and its roots are in West Ham. . In its original incarnation of Old Castle Swifts (founded as the works team of the Castle Shipping Line in 1892) they played at Dunnotar Park in West Ham Lane. In their second season they moved to Temple Meadows, near East Ham railway station. In 1894 they merged with St Lukes, and used that team's ground at Hermit Road, Canning Town (back in West Ham again). The team went bankrupt in 1895 but the assets were bought up by the owner of Thames Ironworks who renamed it after his company, (which was based on the Limmo peninsula, now a worksite for Crossrail) . In the next three seasons the club moved twice more, first to Browning Road (East Ham) and then to the Memorial Ground in Plaistow (West Ham yet again). It was during their stay in Plaistow that when the club went professional and was re-named West Ham United. In 1904 the club moved back across the border for the fifth time to Upton Park. The move to Stratford brings them once again into the old (pre GLC) borough of West Ham. Upton Park station is actually in West Ham as it is on the wrong side of Green Street, which, with Boundary Road (obviously!) formed the division between the two boroughs.
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 19, 2016 16:28:57 GMT
South Chelsea Schol of English which was located in Brixton Several examples of institutions which have moved away from their nominal locations. Royal Holloway College (in Egham). Millwall football club (wrong side of the river) Charing Cross Hospital (in Hammersmith) Hammersmith Hospital (in Acton) However Bedford College and my father's Alma mater, the Northampton Polytechnic (later the City University) were named after the squares in which they were located - although Bedford College is now co-located with Holloway) Royal Holloway was never in Holloway, and was never named after Holloway. It's founder, Thomas Holloway, is from where the name is derived. Bedford College (as was) is, however, named as you describe. (I'm an RHUL alumnus. 😉 </pedant>)
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 19, 2016 16:40:15 GMT
Royal Holloway was never in Holloway, and was never named after Holloway. It's [sic*] founder, Thomas Holloway, is from where the name is derived. (I'm an RHUL alumnus. 😉 </pedant> ) [* see, I can be a pedant too!] Mea culpa - and I was there only on Sunday! It is the prison that is actually in Holloway. (It is a coincidence that for many years (1903-1945) both of them only catered for females!) Until the demolition of the prison's striking Victorian gatehouse in the 1970s, there was a passing resemblance between the two edifices.
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Post by class411 on Oct 19, 2016 16:55:50 GMT
I said that Hammersmith Hospital was arguably in Shepherd's Bush. One place it most definitely is not is Acton. Our posts crossed so I hadn't seen yours when I sent mine, so I wasn't intending to contradict you. The Hammersmith Hospital is in fact in the London Borough of the same name (Hammersmith & Fulham). But so is East Acton, which the hospital's website says is its nearest Tube station (albeit by a small margin). I said originally that the hospital was in the borough of Hammersmith & Fulham. Thinking about it, I expect quite a few people in Acton would consider the Hospital to be Acton based, since Wormwood Scrubs is a boundary for East Acton and the hospital abuts the scrubs (presumably it is built on land that was once part of the scrubs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 11:16:33 GMT
Going back to one of the early examples, a quick look at Google Earth reveals that Canterbury East is actually (just) further west than Canterbury West! Someone had their geography a bit wrong around the time the SECR was formed in 1899.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 21, 2016 12:30:33 GMT
Going back to one of the early examples, a quick look at Google Earth reveals that Canterbury East is actually (just) further west than Canterbury West! Someone had their geography a bit wrong around the time the SECR was formed in 1899. Note sure that google Erath is aligned perectly North South, or even with the National Grid (which is itself only aligned with lines of longitude at 2 degrees West, at the longitude of Canterbury the grid lines run somewhat east of North. The longitude of Canterbury West station is given by Wikiglobe as 1.0752 degrees East, and of the East station as 1.0766 degrees. 0.0014 degrees at the latitude of Canterbury is about 100 yards. Canterbeury West is closer to the west front of the cathedral (which is not aligned perfectly east-west but points a little south of east) Canterbury West was presumably so named by the SER to distinguish it from the older Canterbury North Lane on the "Crab & Winkle" line. Why the later LCDR station was called East rather than South I don't know.
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Post by class411 on Oct 21, 2016 13:42:38 GMT
Canterbury West was presumably so named by the SER to distinguish it from the older Canterbury North Lane. I suspect that it is more likely to have been so named because it is in the part of the City that is considered 'West' rather than differentiation form any Canterbury and Whitstable (C&W) line stations. It would seem pretty odd if you left Canterbury through the Westgate and shortly thereafter encountered a 'North' station. As the Black Ferret said: "There was a Canterbury South, on the Elham Valley line (closed to passengers in 1940), not far from Kent CC HQ at Canterbury, but Canterbury East has remained obstinate these 75 years or so!"
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 21, 2016 14:10:54 GMT
Canterbury West was presumably so named by the SER to distinguish it from the older Canterbury North Lane. I suspect that it is more likely to have been so named because it is in the part of the City that is considered 'West' rather than differentiation form any Canterbury and Whitstable (C&W) line stations. It would seem pretty odd if you left Canterbury through the Westgate and shortly thereafter encountered a 'North' station. As the Black Ferret said: "There was a Canterbury South, on the Elham Valley line (closed to passengers in 1940), not far from Kent CC HQ at Canterbury, but Canterbury East has remained obstinate these 75 years or so!" Canterbury East was already nearly thirty years old before the South station was opened. When was the East station actually first so named? It was the only station in Canterbury on the LCDR, (the other three were all SER), and knowing what relations were like between the companies it is quite likely that the LCDR would disdain a suffix for what was, as far as they were concerned, the only station in Canterbury, as any qualifying adjective would acknowledge the existence of the other stations (in the same way that New Cross (Brighton Line) only became NX "Gate" in SR days.). It is, after all, the closest station to the city walls. With N, W and S already in use by the three SER stations, only East was left when the two companies came under joint management in 1899.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 21, 2016 14:53:40 GMT
It would seem pretty odd if you left Canterbury through the Westgate and shortly thereafter encountered a 'North' station. Not if you lived in Peterborough (Although I suspect the selection of the names "North and "East" for its two stations, accessed from the city centre via the west and south gates respectively, were chosen to relate to the "Great" companies that owned them) .
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Post by class411 on Oct 21, 2016 16:55:57 GMT
As the Black Ferret said: "There was a Canterbury South, on the Elham Valley line (closed to passengers in 1940), not far from Kent CC HQ at Canterbury, but Canterbury East has remained obstinate these 75 years or so!" Canterbury East was already nearly thirty years old before the South station was opened. When was the East station actually first so named? I don't know but ... It looks as if you may have answered your own question.
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Post by class411 on Oct 21, 2016 17:01:46 GMT
It would seem pretty odd if you left Canterbury through the Westgate and shortly thereafter encountered a 'North' station. Not if you lived in Peterborough LOLZ! I somehow doubt that the people who named Canterbury West were considering the residents of Peterborough when they named the station.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 16:47:00 GMT
Addison Road gave its name to KO station despite being a fair walk away because some very expensive houses were built there and the developer was trying to give prospective purchasers the idea that they had their "own" railway station that was NOT Notting Hill.
The road was obliterated by bombing aimed at the WLR and is now under roads and blocks of flats.
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Post by countryman on Oct 30, 2016 13:40:45 GMT
They have the same nonsense with hospitals. The Hammersmith Hospital is in Shepherd's Bush (well, W12, anyway - you generally have to go through Shepherd's Bush from Hammersmith to get there). If you find yourself in a big hospital in Hammersmith, it will be the Charing Cross. I dare say there's a perfectly good technical reason for this but the locals think it's batty. Not heard the word batty for a while. Gave me a smile. Thank you. At least Hammersmith Hospital is in the old borough of Hammersmith. As a matter of interest (to me at least) is that I was born in Hammersmith Hospital and went to school next door to it! And having red some comments further on, I can confirm that East Acton Station (in Hammersmith) is the nearest station as I did the walk most school days from 1964 to 1971. The main advantage for the council was that the pass would have been cheaper (from Perivale), and you didn't have to cross Westway on the way to White City. Also if you were late you could hop onto a 71 or 72 bus (depending on the year) or the 7.
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Post by crusty54 on Feb 2, 2017 14:18:23 GMT
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Post by melikepie on Feb 2, 2017 22:10:59 GMT
Looks like speculation at the moment
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Post by crusty54 on Feb 2, 2017 22:29:32 GMT
Looks like speculation at the moment The Mayor launched the project today.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 23:47:50 GMT
Can someone please explain why there are so many stations in Watford, tube and rail? Is it possible that some of them aren't actually in Watford, thusmaking it appear like there are load of stations up there?
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Post by melikepie on Feb 3, 2017 1:55:41 GMT
it's not all that unusual for large towns to have a lot of stations
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 3, 2017 6:40:05 GMT
Can someone please explain why there are so many stations in Watford, tube and rail? Is it possible that some of them aren't actually in Watford, thusmaking it appear like there are load of stations up there? There are four stations with Watford in their name (High Street, Junction, "Met", and North) plus the former stations at Stadium and West. They are all in the borough of Watford, along with Bushey and Garston. This is not that unusual, given that two separate companies had railways there, and one of them had not only a main line but, at one time, three branches radiating from the centre of the town (St Albans, Croxley Green, Rickmansworth). Acton, a much smaller area, has seven stations with its name in (N, S, E, W, Town, Central, Main Line) built by four different competing railways - Great Western, Metropolitan District, North & South Western Junction, and Central London.
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Post by littlejohn on Feb 3, 2017 16:48:08 GMT
Four stations in Watford is nothing special. I grew up with Ruislip, Ruislip Manor, South Ruislip, Ruislip Gardens and West Ruislip. If you count the BR stations separately that's seven.
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