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Post by afarlie on Sept 19, 2016 15:45:09 GMT
2 questions.
1. Did any previous TfL rolling stock (or trams) carry customer facing clocks? If so which.
2. Why does S Stock apparently not have clocks on it's internal displays.
(My third question would be concerning the readability of LED matrix display clocks, but on S stock they don't seem to be fitted.)
Alex Farlie.
(Amended as the question related to customer facing clocks.)
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Post by t697 on Sept 19, 2016 20:02:58 GMT
2 questions. 1. Did any previous TfL rolling stock (or trams) carry clocks? If so which. 2. Why does S Stock apparently not have clocks on it's internal displays. (My third question would be concerning the readablity of LED matrix display clocks, but on S stock they don't seem to be fitted.) Alex Farlie. 1. None in the passenger saloons. 2. Not required in the LUL Standards at the time of design or now. Nor in RVAR. The station platforms nearly all have clocks in clock face form or as part of the destination indicator display panel. Do you really need a clock display in each car? Carry a watch or mobile phone etc. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 19, 2016 20:14:10 GMT
2. Why does S Stock apparently not have clocks on it's internal displays. (My third question would be concerning the readablity of LED matrix display clocks, but on S stock they don't seem to be fitted.) Alex Farlie. S Stock do have internal clocks for drivers use, one each on TCMS and SID. (recently these have been getting very inaccurate) |
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Post by afarlie on Sept 20, 2016 8:42:55 GMT
2. Why does S Stock apparently not have clocks on it's internal displays. (My third question would be concerning the readablity of LED matrix display clocks, but on S stock they don't seem to be fitted.) Alex Farlie. S Stock do have internal clocks for drivers use, one each on TCMS and SID. (recently these have been getting very inaccurate) Ah should have said customer facing  ~~~~ |
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Post by afarlie on Sept 20, 2016 8:50:00 GMT
2 questions. 1. Did any previous TfL rolling stock (or trams) carry clocks? If so which. 2. Why does S Stock apparently not have clocks on it's internal displays. (My third question would be concerning the readablity of LED matrix display clocks, but on S stock they don't seem to be fitted.) Alex Farlie. 1. None in the passenger saloons. 2. Not required in the LUL Standards at the time of design or now. Nor in RVAR. The station platforms nearly all have clocks in clock face form or as part of the destination indicator display panel. Do you really need a clock display in each car? Carry a watch or mobile phone etc. Noted, but I asked because of a conversation I had on a recent journey about the apparent absence of "customer" (i.e passenger) facing clocks, in the passenger portion of the S stock. Whilst it would indeed be possible to note the time when starting a journey (the platform clocks), it's less easy to do so on route. Your advice about a watch or phone stands, but I have a view it would be nice to have in-car confirmation of 'official' time, if not least to track timetable conformance. |
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 20, 2016 10:00:10 GMT
Power on the Underground does fluctuate and could well make clocks show inaccurate time.
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Post by John Tuthill on Sept 20, 2016 10:10:10 GMT
1. None in the passenger saloons. 2. Not required in the LUL Standards at the time of design or now. Nor in RVAR. The station platforms nearly all have clocks in clock face form or as part of the destination indicator display panel. Do you really need a clock display in each car? Carry a watch or mobile phone etc. Noted, but I asked because of a conversation I had on a recent journey about the apparent absence of "customer" (i.e passenger) facing clocks, in the passenger portion of the S stock. Whilst it would indeed be possible to note the time when starting a journey (the platform clocks), it's less easy to do so on route. Your advice about a watch or phone stands, but I have a view it would be nice to have in-car confirmation of 'official' time, if not least to track timetable conformance. It's interesting that most of the trains out of Waterloo have the time showing on the dot matrix indicators which are across the aisle. Maybe the journeys on the Met are not considered long enough to warrant showing the time? Me-I look at my watch  |
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Post by Dmitri on Sept 20, 2016 10:22:31 GMT
Power on the Underground does fluctuate and could well make clocks show inaccurate time. Can't help wonder why... |
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Post by John Tuthill on Sept 20, 2016 12:34:46 GMT
Power on the Underground does fluctuate and could well make clocks show inaccurate time. Can't help wonder why... Neither can I. The clocks would run off of presumably a 12V DC(?) supply, and no doubt all the low voltage circuits are regulated? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 20, 2016 14:34:18 GMT
The clocks would run off of presumably a 12V DC(?) supply, and no doubt all the low voltage circuits are regulated? Auxiliary supply on S Stock would be 120v DC from a 400v AC auxiliary bus-line, derives from 630v/750v DC traction supply. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 20, 2016 14:39:26 GMT
it would be nice to have in-car confirmation of 'official' time, if not least to track timetable conformance Even on National rail, monitoring performance is a bit of a minority pursuit, unless you have a connection to make. Once you are on the train, you get there when you get there. Early electric clocks indeed took their time from the 50 Hz mains frequency, and could run slow if the grid was running slow. But now that quartz crystals are so reliable, and the GPS and Rugby signals are also available, electric clocks driven from the mains frequency are rare. Anything running off a DC supply, such as an Underground train, cannot use Mains frequency as a reference. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Sept 20, 2016 15:05:03 GMT
The clocks would run off of presumably a 12V DC(?) supply, and no doubt all the low voltage circuits are regulated? Auxiliary supply on S Stock would be 120v DC from a 400v AC auxiliary bus-line, derives from 630v/750v DC traction supply. Thank you for that info. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 19:33:02 GMT
The MTR trains in Hong Kong DO have customer facing clocks in them - I guess that the systems read the time off the Seltrac signalling system (that wiggly cable running along the centre of the track bed) because that can be extremely accurate to the fractional part of one second. I hope that the new MTR Crossrail trains have the same clock facility.
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Post by 1018509 on Nov 19, 2016 21:57:22 GMT
There were a couple of pre-refurb 1973 stock cabs that had digital clocks retro-fitted somewhere on the driver's console. Dammed if I can remember where though - I do remember putting the clocks right whenever I came across them during train-prep. I do seem to recall that even this was not as straightforward as it might have been.
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Post by stapler on Nov 19, 2016 22:29:20 GMT
Bit odd that buses do, on the DMIs............
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Post by crusty54 on Nov 19, 2016 23:04:07 GMT
Bit odd that buses do, on the DMIs............ The ticket machines on buses have had clocks for years. Buses also spend almost all day above ground and can respond to satellites for time correction. The new signalling uses real time information but the trains were built before this was installed. Suspect the new displays for the Crossrail trains will be able to show a clock. |
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Post by stapler on Nov 20, 2016 8:02:40 GMT
Point taken crusty.
Are you saying the buses' time display is obtained by GPS? Or a the machines synchronised by code received wirelessly by some other means.
I always find it annoying when the time on a bus is replaced by "Bus stopping" or some announcement about no trains on the Goblin!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 10:50:21 GMT
The most useful place to put a customer clock display, is on the ticket machine displays, it was tried for a short while in the 1990's on the DLR ticket machines, (at the top right hand corner of the screen) but not subsequently pursued - the reason for this is so that you can make sure you do not inadvertently touch in one minute before the 0930AM or whatever the OFF PEAK start time is for that station and overpay for your journey. Having the clock on the ticket machine is better, as they are linked to the ticket gates at that station for the purpose of synchronisation with data flows and control purposes.
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Post by stapler on Nov 20, 2016 11:14:13 GMT
Haven't LU solved that by allowing a period of grace to cover any slight inaccuracy? A bit like speed cameras! They don't advertise this but I think someone on here some time ago said it was in the order of 2-3mins at each deadline...?
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Post by 1018509 on Nov 20, 2016 23:39:12 GMT
But what is a LU minute? Anything between 31 seconds and 89 seconds?
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