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Post by silenthunter on Aug 28, 2016 14:36:03 GMT
Thought this little line warrants its own thread. It gets some odd stock out there; I've seen 317/7s on there with first class seating and the left over Stansted Express refreshment points!
You may also be interested to know it was one of the few lines in London that was listed in the Beeching Report as a proposed full closure.
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Post by will on Aug 28, 2016 16:28:15 GMT
I wasn't actually aware the line existed until London Overground took over the service.
The line may even be considered useful when the Elizabeth line opens providing a convenient link with the District Line and C2C services from there as well as connecting Romford an area that will likely be significantly boosted by the Elizabeth line and Upminster.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 28, 2016 20:32:40 GMT
The line may even be considered useful when the Elizabeth line opens providing a convenient link with the District Line and C2C services from there Isn't it useful now? The District will already have a connection with Crossrail at Whitechapel, which will be more convenient than backtracking via Upminster. As for C2C, although there will be no direct connection to Crossrail, the most convenient connection will surely be via West Ham (just two stops after Upminster) and, again, Whitechapel. Remember that, unlike Crossrail, C2C doesn't stop at every lamp post between Zone 6 and Zone 2.
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Post by christopher125 on Aug 28, 2016 21:06:38 GMT
Has there been any discernible increase in usage since it became part of the Overground?
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Post by revupminster on Aug 29, 2016 6:04:21 GMT
The line has always had a vociferous support when threatened with closure but paradoxically opposed electrification when rumours of nuclear flask trains using the line despite being severed at the Upminster end.
It had a passenger boost when pensioners could use their freedom passes. It has a limited commuter traffic plus lots of schoolchildren attending top schools in Upminster ie Coopers Company Coborn relocated from Stepney in 1971, first example of white flight from the east end. Sacred Heart Girls school Catholic, nuns all deceased now, and Hall Mead. We won't mention Gaynes. Four secondary schools all within a few miles of each other is unusual. The standards of each school could, but not now, be determined by the girl's hemline.
From an underground point of view Upminster Bridge was plagued by 'flahers' exposing themselves.
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 29, 2016 9:24:19 GMT
Has there been any discernible increase in usage since it became part of the Overground? From personal observation, I would say so, but there has been a ten-fold increase in passengers using Emerson Park (which still has NSE tiling on the platform) since 1995. I don't think the 2015-16 figures have been released. Also, the line now has a Sunday service, which was introduced late last year.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 13:38:26 GMT
My mate used to call the Romford to Upminster Line the pushmepullyou line after the two-headed llama in Dr Dolittle.
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Post by stapler on Sept 3, 2016 15:23:28 GMT
"one of the few lines in London proposed for complete closure by Beeching" It wasn't in London at the time of Beeching. Havering LB was created only in 1965.
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 3, 2016 21:08:25 GMT
My mate used to call the Romford to Upminster Line the pushmepullyou line after the two-headed llama in Dr Dolittle. I know it as the 'push pull' myself.
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Post by 315 on Dec 14, 2016 20:57:21 GMT
TfL Rail now supply drivers for the RMF-UPM.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 16, 2016 0:22:45 GMT
What this line should have got are tramtrains, a passing loop and a few extra halts - at Brentwood Road near to Romford and Wingletye Lane near to Upminster. The shorter length of the tramtrains would have meant that shorter platforms would need building whilst being tramtrains the rolling stock could use the 25kV power supply. The more frequent service and extra stops would have boosted patronage and helped reduce road traffic.
At least however the line survived and now has a future - unlike quite a few other branch lines here in London. Simon
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 16, 2016 7:54:18 GMT
What this line should have got ......... Maybe it should, and maybe it will, but TfL took it on "as is" only last year and have rather bigger fish to fry than upgrading this backwater. Even the electrification done in 1986 can be regarded as an economy measure as, together with electrification of the North Woolwich line, it allowed withdrawal of Stratford depot's small fleet of diesel units. I'm interested to know which branch lines you think do not have a future.
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Post by stapler on Dec 16, 2016 8:10:06 GMT
I suppose Southminster and Braintree qualified under cheapo electrification to get rid of DMUs, too. Curious to see how these runts survived -- and prospered (who'd have thought of 12 car direct trains LV-Braintree 50 years ago) when others, more sound, died on the vine (eg St Ives, Maldon, Northern Heights, Palace Gates, Aldeburgh... all of which would be used now). I remember being the only passenger from Romford to Grays changing at Upminster one winter day in 1965, when closure was thought round the corner, with the DMU, less than 10 years old, belching black smoke!
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Post by superteacher on Dec 16, 2016 12:09:34 GMT
I suppose Southminster and Braintree qualified under cheapo electrification to get rid of DMUs, too. Curious to see how these runts survived -- and prospered (who'd have thought of 12 car direct trains LV-Braintree 50 years ago) when others, more sound, died on the vine (eg St Ives, Maldon, Northern Heights, Palace Gates, Aldeburgh... all of which would be used now). I remember being the only passenger from Romford to Grays changing at Upminster one winter day in 1965, when closure was thought round the corner, with the DMU, less than 10 years old, belching black smoke! Witham - Braintree survived mainly due to the efforts of the local MP at the time, whereas the same could not be said for Witham - Maldon. Maldon could do with a train service nowadays. There were many anomalies during the Beeching era. Village stations such as White Notley (on the Braintree branch) survived, whereas a large and developing town such as Haverhill in Suffolk lost its service.
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Post by peterc on Dec 16, 2016 17:23:00 GMT
A dedicated fleet wouldn't be cost effective unless it was part of a larger tram network. This was done to death on the RIPAS board some time ago.
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 16, 2016 17:26:51 GMT
What this line should have got are tramtrains, a passing loop and a few extra halts - at Brentwood Road near to Romford and Wingletye Lane near to Upminster. The shorter length of the tramtrains would have meant that shorter platforms would need building whilst being tramtrains the rolling stock could use the 25kV power supply. The more frequent service and extra stops would have boosted patronage and helped reduce road traffic. At least however the line survived and now has a future - unlike quite a few other branch lines here in London. Simon There was a passing loop at Emerson Park formerly, but that's long gone. Also, nearly all of that line is in a cutting and building halts would be difficult in terms of excavation.
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Post by stapler on Dec 16, 2016 17:43:44 GMT
I suppose Southminster and Braintree qualified under cheapo electrification to get rid of DMUs, too. Curious to see how these runts survived -- and prospered (who'd have thought of 12 car direct trains LV-Braintree 50 years ago) when others, more sound, died on the vine (eg St Ives, Maldon, Northern Heights, Palace Gates, Aldeburgh... all of which would be used now). I remember being the only passenger from Romford to Grays changing at Upminster one winter day in 1965, when closure was thought round the corner, with the DMU, less than 10 years old, belching black smoke! Witham - Braintree survived mainly due to the efforts of the local MP at the time, whereas the same could not be said for Witham - Maldon. Maldon could do with a train service nowadays. There were many anomalies during the Beeching era. Village stations such as White Notley (on the Braintree branch) survived, whereas a large and developing town such as Haverhill in Suffolk lost its service. Quite agree re Haverhill ( a viable branch would have been Audley End-Bartlow-Haverhill) but I'm not so sure about the reason for the survival of Braintree. As far as I remember, Maldon and Braintree were both in the same constituency at the time!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 18:47:46 GMT
From memory (either a conversation with rail historian or from a book) the Braintree branch was kept in operation because of plans in the 1960s to make Stansted a London Airport. BAA took over the airport in 1966 and started flights from there soon after. At the time a number of schemes were mooted including reopening the Braintree to Bishops Stortford line to passenger trains (which had ceased in the 50s) and running a Stansted Airport service between Witham and Harlow. It certainly makes sense as BAA held significant political sway back then.
In the end the Stansted project was delayed until the 80's, a dualed A120 was built along the base of the disused line as part of a now-shelved project to provide a motorway standard road from the M11 to Harwich.
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