Jubilee Line Interior Upgrade

Why do the digital voice announcements need to have so much information? In Paris, the announcements cover only the stations as they enter and some key information (such as at the end of the line, skipped stops, mind the gap, and branches). It seems that in Paris, maps and signage are responsible for providing interchange information.

Good point made by the pair of you, but many LU lines (including the Jubilee line) suffer from too many cases of too much information with the PISes (Northern line is the worst IMHO) and it is not that helpful for visually impaired people. Let's hope this doesn't happen with Crossrail!

Too much information is my main concern - I am not anti-blind, but I think that the wording can be simplified especially on the Northern line (i.e. "This train is for Morden via Bank" seems better), and I think there is a point in the journey between stations so that the announcements do not need to do interchange information twice.

Or maybe I am desperately yearning for something fresh and professional. If only if I had access to all announcements from the past (especially the early Circle/Bakerloo/Victoria) I would be able to judge which one would be the best to build on and then post it on Realistic Railway Ideas, Proposals and Suggestions. I also not rule out mixed-gender announcements that already exists on the Sub-Surface lines.

I can sympathise with the intent here but it doesn't comply with RVAR (Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations). It's quite a task to meet the RVAR and various other LUL and system constraints. At least on most LUL trips if you did get on the wrong train it's only 2-3 minutes to the next stop to retrace your steps. And for the boarding passenger, the platforms now mostly display where the next trains terminate and on the Victoria and all SSR lines, the outside of the train gives its destination on every car.

Mind you I still get asked quite often at Harrow! "Well the Signaller seems to think we are going to Watford according to the platform display and the driver has set up Watford on the train, so we're just waiting for the Controller to tell them to change all that..."

I chanced upon this train today.

Was disappointed to see that the blue seat fabric remains - if the Bakerloo can have brown so the Jubilee should have silver grey!

I was told by someone that the wiring loom below the floor has been changed so that it takes less time to access the wires and make changes / modify / upgrade them, should the need arise.

I had my camera with me and since this was train No.3 to depart I had sufficient time for a few photos :-)

(watch this space... but first they must be published online)

Simon

Note that my photography skills aren't the best.

I thought that hand-poles etc had to be a bright colour to comply with DDA? Those poles don't look too bright to me...

Rather than blue moquette the Jubilee should use grey. However, rather than create a new variant a simple expedient could be to use the same as the Bakerloo Line. The image below shows why I suggest this...


1972Mk2-TubeDM-BarmanMoquette-P1400054

If the Central Line can have blue, even though it is totally wrong according to the line colour, so a grey / brown mixture would still be more appropriate than what it has at present.

Oh and as a Central Line user I'd rather that the Central Line also had grey / brown with a circle in the correct line colour than have blue!

Simon

Please, not more Barman variants. It's not a particularly great design in and of itself (and improves with age and wearing!), but the 'recoloured' version on the Bakerloo looks ridiculous. I'd rather not see it spread to other lines.

Thankfully the images linked by tut are, firstly, a combination of new and worn moquette and, secondly, mocked up in photoshop. There is no unique version.

But if we want to discuss even more ridiculous mismatches, check out the Piccadilly line trains running with part Barman/part Tube Lines squares...

Yes compared to historic designs it's distinctly second-rate in my opinion. I prefer many of the 1990s versions (C stock excepted) and definitely many of the ones before that, red/black/silver as found on unrefurbished A stock, 62 stock etc is my personal favourite of all. Anything is better than the Tube Lines squares. Have to say I prefer tha Bakerloo version of Barman to the standard. At the end of the day if we're now back to line coloured interiors then I think the maquette should match. I don't fully understand why LU keeps changing its mind on interior colours. If we're back to line colours and people get used to this then the 95 stock is a little confusing to users.

(Then again, if LU can change its mind twice on the biggest resignalling contract in its history then grab poles and seat moquette colour schemes pale into insignificance!).

Interesting to see and read all the comments and thoughts! I’m sorry for this essay below – but it may help give an explanation of some of the issues. As usual ‘this isn’t official policy’ just background info from me and – a moderator may want to move this off elsewhere!
A few things - the Barman was designed (by a commission and competition) as at the time we were concerned as to a multiplicity of differing designs that were proving more expensive to source (on short production runs for repair) and to replace some less appealing designs most notably on ex-TLL fleets with the ghastly 'square' design. The TLL 'pattern' was off the shelf and had poor wear qualities due to various reasons - lack of uncut threads on the fabric and a poorer backing that meant it wasn't structurally as strong. At the time the 'push' within the company was towards a more 'corporate' train design given that the 'line colour' based strategies aren’t able to be delivered across all lines in a coherent way – think S-stock and three lines. Personally I don’t like the S-stock’s preponderance of yellow (a Metronet/Bombardier decision that LU somewhat conceded due to costs) and the moquette isn’t a strong design feature. As has been noted – RVAR doesn’t always mean yellow.
The design of Barman was also ‘influenced’ by the issue of 30 point colour contrast – you’ll be unsurprised to know that this issue is always a consideration of any aspect of design that we look at and commission. On RVAR ‘unregulated’ stock the pragmatic decision that was taken to ensure that a) we wouldn’t make contrast worse and b) we’d attempt to get the best possible contrast within the constraints of the existing interior. The 1992-TS got Barman and, slightly off-piste, the W&C got its ‘teal’ version when it was originally de-NSE’d. When we looked at refurb on the Northern we were keen to get rid of the yellow poles and to introduce Barman as it a) got rid of the squares and b) it gave us efficiency of bulk orders for Barman. The initial evidence was that the ‘yellow’ didn’t achieve particularly good contrast in various areas of the car interiors due to the background colours. The interiors on the Northern achieve RVAR – but, after completion, although it looks ‘clean’ and ‘smarter’ there was a corporate concern it was a bit ‘cool’ in appearance. So, when the Jubilee was being scoped up we were asked to look at making the interior a little less ‘cool’.
At the same time we undertook the major work on the Design Guide for the NTfL – with this we started to look again at the overall internal architecture of train interiors and the visual relationship between interior elements of the car design, all the requirements we have to meet (a lot!) and passenger perception of interiors and how they react to the space and nature of space. This includes floor colours and designs, lighting, and the ‘structural’ impact of seating banks and moquette. This exercise (and the NTfL moquette may be reviewed at order time) enabled us to look again at the Jubilee so that instead of copying the Northern (the original idea) and although ‘blue’ Barman was a given, we made the decision to draw darker shades up around the windows and to re-think the floor layout.
The floor layout came because the previously ‘unwritten’ rule sort of read that the lighter floor in the saloon gave better contrast with skirting and helped visually ‘draw’ passengers into the saloon. The downside, as we discovered talking to maintainers, was that floor marking became more locally pronounced at seated locations and these are the most difficult to clean. So, we discussed swapping the ‘dark’/light’ between vestibules and saloons so as to minimise the appearance of ‘spot’ wear and give cleaning across a vestibule, door to door, a better change. We tested this premise, visually, on a spare car in Acton Works – along with lighting options to help refine NTfL requirements. The flooring considerations also relate to materiality – and slip-resistance – as well as compliance and the desire to potentially introduce some form of grooving or the appearance of grooving. The process to produce grooves can impact on manufacturing costs as well as influence the slip resistance (not necessarily for the better!) and cleaning can be an issue. However, grooves or the appearance of grooves, can give a better appearance of wear and tear (as it is a less ‘open’ surface) and can, we feel, give a better visual appearance to the floor overall.
The current Bakerloo refresh – given the extent of works on this fleet an early decision was made to keep the ‘line colour’ identity and so, given blue and brown aren’t that good together, we worked up the variation of the Barman that looks best overall and works in terms of colour contrast with the seat trim (that was a deliberate choice to retain) and the dark poles. Hope this helps give some of the context to a changing world.
We have looked at re-using or even reworking the colourways of some of the older moquette designs many of which are indeed splendid. However it isn’t as easy – especially with changing the colours as some of the real subtlety of the originals are easily lost as they are very refined and thoughtful. Moquette is also a 3-D product so any changes to the cut/uncut fabric ratio (often needed on modern looms) can ‘throw’ the look. There’s also a feeling that it is no bad thing to keep commissioning and trialling designs as this is part of our on-going ‘design heritage’ – even allowing for subjective views such as people’s ‘like’ or ‘dislike’ of different colours!

Anyone know why they were given plain step plates instead of the ALSTOM ones used on the 95s?

That was an interesting post that answered a lot of questions. Comprehensive factual answers to obscure items like this never go amiss.

96058 was seen Saturday night at Acton Town reversing via the sidings