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Post by robv on Apr 5, 2016 20:23:32 GMT
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Post by domh245 on Apr 5, 2016 20:43:03 GMT
I would say that it was a bit of an overreaction to call for station closure by the RMT. Low grade asbestos in the roof is perfectly safe - it is only when it falls that it is dangerous. You can guarantee that TfL will have done a survey for likely asbestos containing materials as well as a plan to manage them. If the rest of the tiles look like they are going to come down, then yes they should be acted on quickly, but if they are stable then there is no real need to charge head long into it.
(Also worth noting that if the staff were affected, nothing would happen for 15 years or more, and even then it would have to have been a sizeable amount of it inhaled)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 20:47:13 GMT
You be surprised on how much of the stuff there actually is
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 5, 2016 21:35:37 GMT
Low grade asbestos in the roof is perfectly safe - it is only when it falls that it is dangerous. I assume you're referring to the asbestos, because I'd imagine any roof covering is dangerous when it falls - I certainly wouldn't want to be standing underneath! Asbestos generally is fine so long as you don't disturb it, though it' annoying that we can no longer get asbestos gaskets for the mud-hole doors on the steam rollers; PTFE ones are too slippy and have a tendency to slide out.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Apr 5, 2016 21:41:58 GMT
You be surprised on how much of the stuff there actually is I used to deal with asbestos registers in schools and you're right, there's an awful lot of it, everywhere. Provided it's not drilled through or sanded it's safe for anybody in its immediate vicinity. This didn't stop several one day strikes by NUT members and (on one memorable occasion) a complete school closure after we'd reported its presence and our intention to avoid it on our cabling routes. As far as I'm aware, the asbestos is still there to this day, untouched and totally safe. Of course, the local reporting of the asbestos presence was hysterical to say the least, disregarding all the facts, and it would appear this may not be so very far removed from the national press approach.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 5, 2016 22:22:29 GMT
We had a situation once where a new sparky came to change a faulty lamp in the tea room. He took one look at the ceiling, declared it to be asbestos and promptly sealed the doorway.
Two days later the asbestos assessor arrived, took one look and said "that's not asbestos". We promptly offered him a brew!
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Post by jamesb on Apr 6, 2016 6:09:02 GMT
There are several things at any station which are more hazardous to staff then asbestos in a roof... - customers - trains - electric rails
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 8:12:20 GMT
It's like most things you just treat it with abit of respect
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Post by theblackferret on Apr 6, 2016 9:03:58 GMT
The problem here is twofold.
First, it doesn't take long for asbestos to flake away at the edges and emit potentially toxic dust in that process. The dust is the concern, particularly prolonged exposure to it.
Second, there is potential in somewhere like a station roof for a constant stream of trains below & cars and buses in the road to set up enough vibration and resonance to keep the dust showering down on passengers and staff alike. And there, with daily users of any given station, plus its' staff, is the potential for prolonged exposure.
And the dust is extremely difficult to keep at bay.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Apr 6, 2016 11:22:45 GMT
The best treatment for asbestos roofing material is to paint it. The paint sticks the fibres together and stops...or at least markedly slows...the flaking process referred to by theblackferret. Of course,this means that you are now committed to re-painting it every X years,but it is a sufficient stop-gap until replacement (the only *sure* solution) can be justified.
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Post by Chris W on Apr 6, 2016 12:35:48 GMT
You be surprised on how much of the stuff there actually is I used to deal with asbestos registers in schools and you're right, there's an awful lot of it, everywhere. Provided it's not drilled through or sanded it's safe for anybody in its immediate vicinity. This didn't stop several one day strikes by NUT members and (on one memorable occasion) a complete school closure after we'd reported its presence and our intention to avoid it on our cabling routes. As far as I'm aware, the asbestos is still there to this day, untouched and totally safe. Of course, the local reporting of the asbestos presence was hysterical to say the least, disregarding all the facts, and it would appear this may not be so very far removed from the national press approach. Absolutely- spot on: Link to naturalhandyman.com Link to oregonstate.edu
I'm prepared to give TfL sufficient rope to sort this one out rather than start to throw around my toys at this stage... after all there are lots of guidance from our own HSE and legislation to back that up.
For example:
Managing Asbestos in BuildingsAsbestos: Your Quick Guide Duty to Manage Asbestos (HSE website)
If there's any suggestion that TfL are acting inappropriately, then of course staff unions should start to shout...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 14:08:30 GMT
LU do take asbestos very serious I have to say from past experiences and test ASAP and if need be to remove it again ASAP. They have a dedicated team.
On another note we had one of our IMR's checked and the contractor who LU to test for asbestos using air monitoring equipment informed me there was more " cra*" in the outside air then there was in the room.
Remember when the twin towers came down in 2001 through 9/11 most of New York was covered in asbestos dust from the towers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 15:23:11 GMT
When I worked in Africa in the eighties I would occasionally (not too often!) visit an office in a town where they mined the stuff. Just about every surface, indoor and out, was covered in white asbestos dust; the only answer probably would have been to give up breathing!
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Apr 8, 2016 11:47:16 GMT
I remember when they discovered blue asbestos in 60TS ceilings,they took one unit at a time out of service,stabled it on the old P.Way siding at the side of the lifting shop at Hainault.The unit was completely sealed(with an airlock)& given over to the specialist contractors.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 8, 2016 18:44:41 GMT
I would say that it was a bit of an overreaction to call for station closure by the RMT. Low grade asbestos in the roof is perfectly safe - it is only when it falls that it is dangerous. You can guarantee that TfL will have done a survey for likely asbestos containing materials as well as a plan to manage them. TfL would do all these things, but the bits being worked on aren't theirs.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 8, 2016 18:50:22 GMT
LU do take asbestos very serious I have to say from past experiences and test ASAP and if need be to remove it again ASAP. They have a dedicated team. On another note we had one of our IMR's checked and the contractor who LU to test for asbestos using air monitoring equipment informed me there was more " cra*" in the outside air then there was in the room. I agree. We had a damaged route indicator a few years back that was struck by piece of Permanent Way plant. There was a quantity of white dust, and people were naturally concerned. The Asbestos people who arrived declared it to be fine after some sampling, but had a fit when they saw the undamaged asbestos rope gasket on the replacement unit we were about to install! The best report I ever saw, ironically enough, was at Ealing Broadway, where the asbestos surveyors identified a door with asbestos lining. How did they know? The manufacturer's plate said that was what it was. I don't think we needed them to tell us that...
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