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Post by phoenixcronin on Feb 28, 2016 17:06:19 GMT
Hi I was wondering whether or not it is a requirement for Inter Car Barriers to be present between all cars in a train or not, because as I see it there are some discrepancies.
In particular, double ended 1973 stock have the (ugly, eyesore etc) brackets fitted to the cabs to cater for the event that they end up in the middle of a train, but 1992 stock cabs do not have such brackets fitted, even though a small number do end up in the middle of trains, and the barriers between the two cars are simply not fitted.
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Post by crusty54 on Feb 28, 2016 17:51:29 GMT
think you will find that they're not needed when there is a cab or two present.
They were fitted after somebody was killed trying to exit a train through non-cab interconnecting doors.
A cab has a protruding door which reduces the gap.
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Post by piccboy on Feb 28, 2016 18:26:00 GMT
1973 have the brackets pre-fitted as it is easy to turn them around, via the heathrow terminal 4 loop to make a middle cab an end cab. I seem to recall seeing a post somewhere about the reasons for 1992 having middle cabs was because they had more cabs than NDM's (non-driving motors)? Can't find it at the moment.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 28, 2016 18:48:36 GMT
In particular, double ended 1973 stock have the (ugly, eyesore etc) brackets fitted to the cabs to cater for the event that they end up in the middle of a train... I like them, I think someone on here once referred to them as "fins" ...but 1992 stock cabs do not have such brackets fitted, even though a small number do end up in the middle of trains, and the barriers between the two cars are simply not fitted. Oddly D Stock do have, as this photo from Chris W shows: IMG_3226 by Chris Westcott, on Flickr And the C Stock also did: London Underground: C Stock 5541 Paddington (Circle Line) by emdjt42, on Flickr
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 28, 2016 22:43:39 GMT
C stock trains (three single ended units) always had a cab in the middle of the train.
D stock and 1973 stock double enders always run with one cab in the middle of the train. Single enders cannot do so (the non-cab end is always in the middle). So fins are only fitted to the double enders.
1973 stock is handed and can only couple to a unit which is the right way round (A-end to D-end) This handedness is common on the Underground, all tube stock except 1972 and 1992 stock has been handed, as has all SSR stock since the O/P/Q stock except the A and C stock. It was not a problem when the 1973 stock was built, as trains could not be turned end for end until the T4 loop was built. But whether single ended or double ended, a 1973 unit can only couple to another one if they have both been round the loop an odd number of times, or both an even number of times. There are enough 2-car units of 1992 stock to make up 85 eight car trains. 175 units have cabs, five more than needed to make 85 trains, thus if all units are in service, five trains will have a cab unit in the middle of the train - although I've only ever seen one once, and can find no photos on the web. Presumably the powers-that-be decided that fitting barriers to all 175 cabs was not justified as, unlike other stocks it was rare for a cab to be in the middle of a train. 85 5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 23:07:40 GMT
There are enough 2-car units of 1992 stock to make up 85 eight car trains. 175 units have cabs, five more than needed to make 85 trains, thus if all units are in service, five trains will have a cab unit in the middle of the train - although I've only ever seen one once, and can find no photos on the web. Presumably the powers-that-be decided that fitting barriers to all 175 cabs was not justified as, unlike other stocks it was rare for a cab to be in the middle of a train. They are rare, but I've actually seen them a fair bit. Here's a pic: www.flickr.com/photos/trivran/8103251556/
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Post by patrickb on Feb 29, 2016 22:30:54 GMT
72's have them in the middle although the cab is not red. Though if I remember correctly, one DM is red AND had brackets.
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 1, 2016 18:43:56 GMT
The Inter Car Barrier fins are fitted on cabs where there is a reasonable chance that the cab concerned will frequently be in the middle. Thus Double Ended D Stock and 73 Tube Stock cabs were so fitted as were all C stock cabs. 1992 Stock cab units are all the same, so having a middle cab is comparatively rare. Thus the decision was taken, on a risk basis, not to fit ICB to these cabs.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 1, 2016 20:10:15 GMT
The Inter Car Barrier fins are fitted on cabs where there is a reasonable chance that the cab concerned will frequently be in the middle. Thus Double Ended D Stock and 73 Tube Stock cabs were so fitted as were all C stock cabs. 1992 Stock cab units are all the same, so having a middle cab is comparatively rare. Thus the decision was taken, on a risk basis, not to fit ICB to these cabs. How perfectly sensible! A refreshing change.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 24, 2016 14:21:24 GMT
was on a 1992 car adjacent to a cab just now. Although ICBs are not fitted, the big "teeth" either side of the end door on the adjacent B-car would probably be enough of a deterrent to anyone trying to get out of the train that way. (Doesn't stop people falling through the gap off the platform of course)
Are the teeth new? I don't recall seeing them before.
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Post by Colin on Mar 24, 2016 16:20:54 GMT
was on a 1992 car adjacent to a cab just now. Although ICBs are not fitted, the big "teeth" either side of the end door on the adjacent B-car would probably be enough of a deterrent to anyone trying to get out of the train that way. (Doesn't stop people falling through the gap off the platform of course) Are the teeth new? I don't recall seeing them before. They feature in the Holland Park RAIB report- the incident occured on 25th August 2013, so they've been in use for a while!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 24, 2016 17:13:07 GMT
Are the teeth new? I don't recall seeing them before. They feature in the Holland Park RAIB report- the incident occured on 25th August 2013, so they've been in use for a while! Thank you - the report says they were fitted earlier that year (para 98).. Shows how often I use the Central Line It seems some passengers used them as a ladder!
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Post by jamesb on Mar 24, 2016 23:39:43 GMT
I thought that the inter-car barriers were more designed to stop someone falling between the carriages from the platform, rather then to stop them getting out from the train?
The teeth on the central line were modified with additional rubber bars above the interconnecting doors so that you can't climb up them because your head wouldn't fit through the gap.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 25, 2016 0:25:10 GMT
I thought that the inter-car barriers were more designed to stop someone falling between the carriages from the platform, rather then to stop them getting out from the train? Yes. The teeth and the barriers are both there to reduce the likelihood of someone falling onto the track between cars of a train but they mitigate different methods by which this can happen. The inter-car barriers are there to stop someone falling from the platform, the teeth are there to stop someone falling from the train.
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Post by metman on Mar 26, 2016 18:38:42 GMT
I understand that the 1972 stock on the Bakerloo is now handed after OPO conversion with the 33XX motors in the middle of the train and not fitted with OPO equipment. They also operate the wrong way round but that's another story....
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Post by edwin on Mar 28, 2016 9:52:05 GMT
was on a 1992 car adjacent to a cab just now. Although ICBs are not fitted, the big "teeth" either side of the end door on the adjacent B-car would probably be enough of a deterrent to anyone trying to get out of the train that way. (Doesn't stop people falling through the gap off the platform of course) Are the teeth new? I don't recall seeing them before. They feature in the Holland Park RAIB report- the incident occured on 25th August 2013, so they've been in use for a while! I read the report and came across this: "98 Inner inter-car barriers were retrofitted to Central Line stock during the early part of 2013. They were fitted to deter a passenger from attempting to get out of a train via the car end-doors after failing to leave the train at the final station stop and being over-carried into sidings where the train operator changes ends. Once the barriers had been fitted, LUL removed the previous requirement for station staff at the final station stop to check that all passengers had got off the train before it moved off to the sidings." Does this mean that there is no longer a longer station stop at for instance, West Hampstead when a train terminates there? That's if the 96TS has similar barriers fitted of course.
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