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Post by trt on Nov 26, 2015 8:04:43 GMT
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class411
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Post by class411 on Nov 26, 2015 8:17:01 GMT
So, it's really more: Stand either side, rather than an attempt to switch the standing/walking streams.
Seems like a sensible idea at peak times (when it's virtually impossible to walk up a lot of escalators, anyway, because of people standing on the left).
It would be extremely annoying at non-peak times, though.
It remains to be seen if they can find a way of implementing it so that it works differently at peak times without the aforementioned 'bloodbath' - or, at the very least, a great deal of confusion.
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Post by trt on Nov 26, 2015 9:03:01 GMT
A metaphorical bloodbath. A sort of "bloody *mumble mumble* excuse me please" bath.
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Post by phoenixcronin on Nov 26, 2015 11:22:30 GMT
I saw this this morning, seemed like a good idea but it wasn't very smooth. There were two station staff with megaphones telling people to stand on the left, and some people took this to mean stand on the left and walk on the right. Also the posters which they put up were very hard to see during the packed rush hour, so many people were confused.
Nevertheless I think it could work if done properly.
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Post by trt on Nov 26, 2015 12:16:21 GMT
If they are going to devote staff time to shouting at people through megaphones, they should be telling people on the right to step forwards if the step in front of them is clear. They run well below capacity because of this. The flow rates through gatelines are also supposedly balanced against escalator speed. I also worry about the mechanics of the escalator, as you can already feel them sagging at some stations when a heavier person or an elephant foot walks or runs up them. Can they take the weight?
Besides which, we get little enough exercise as it is! Being forced to stand... ugh.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Nov 26, 2015 16:17:13 GMT
What really needs doing is for the station to be rebuilt with more escalators , bigger ticket hall etc.
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Post by blackhorsesteve on Nov 26, 2015 16:41:41 GMT
There was nothing wrong with the 'old' system, this smacks of someone trying to justify their salary by coming up with a new fancy idea.
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Post by peterc on Nov 26, 2015 17:01:12 GMT
I don't use Holborn very often but elsewhere I have seen a long queue of standees waiting for the RHS of an escalator while you can walk straight up on the left. (This is normally late evening)
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Post by domh245 on Nov 26, 2015 17:04:02 GMT
I for one (and I have no idea why I do this) will almost always run up stairs when presented with them. I will be quite happily ambling along on the flat and level, but as soon as I come to stairs, I start to speed up, often taking them 2 at a time, and I've noticed this extends to escalators as well. Combined with my hatred of people who walk slowly, I could see myself getting rather irate. Thankfully, I didn't go to UCL!
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Post by crusty54 on Nov 26, 2015 20:05:10 GMT
it has been done before and it does mean more people are carried on the escalator.
A moving person takes around 3 treads.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 26, 2015 20:54:54 GMT
it has been done before and it does mean more people are carried on the escalator. A moving person takes around 3 treads. If they are moving say three times faster how would this help?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 26, 2015 21:04:29 GMT
I for one (and I have no idea why I do this) will almost always run up stairs when presented with them. Glad I'm not the only one! I often scurry up short flights of stairs; I did draw the line though when leaving Clapham South Shelter - HWMBO had other ideas though and was waiting at the top and not even out of breath!
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 26, 2015 21:12:57 GMT
I often scurry up short flights of stairs I prefer to leap, or occasionally prance, up flights of stairs. There's definitely something within us all that says "accelerate" when faced with the wooden (or metal) hill.
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Nov 26, 2015 21:54:32 GMT
There is also the awkward moment when you step onto an escalator that isn't moving and that split second moment your body thinks it's moving and you slow down. Am I alone in this?
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Post by jamesb on Nov 26, 2015 23:11:44 GMT
There is also the awkward moment when you step onto an escalator that isn't moving and that split second moment your body thinks it's moving and you slow down. Am I alone in this? That is a fascinating phenomenon. Sensory input comes from eyes, muscles and joints, and the inner ear on both sides, and is sent to the brain, where it is integrated with learned information. If there is a mismatch, we feel unsteady. Walking on a stationary escalator, the information that our body sends to the brain doesn't match what our brain remembers as what if feels like to stand on a moving escalator. Thats what causes vertigo -e.g. if there are crystals floating in the fluid in the inner ear, which confuse the tiny hairs that move in a certain direction when we turn our head, causing the brain to get information that doesn't match what has been learned in the past. I work as a GP and frequently use 'stepping onto a stationery escalator' to explain why my patients feel dizzy when they have a problem with their inner ear. I suppose it's the human version of a signal failure! You are really screwed if you've had a cerebellar stroke, because you can feel dizzy all the time, since everything that has been learned is forgotten, causing the brain to work in an uncoordinated fashion leading to the appearance of the person walking like they are drunk all the time.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 26, 2015 23:14:23 GMT
There is also the awkward moment when you step onto an escalator that isn't moving and that split second moment your body thinks it's moving and you slow down. Am I alone in this? No Dom, you're not alone! It's such a weird sensation.
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North End
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Post by North End on Nov 26, 2015 23:14:56 GMT
it has been done before and it does mean more people are carried on the escalator. A moving person takes around 3 treads. Does this trial apply to all the escalators at Holborn, or just the main up escalator leading to the street? I could understand the latter as it allows people to leave quickly, however the problem at Holborn has never been the escalators, but the torturous nature of the low-level passageways and conflicts between various flows of passengers in the circulating areas. The last thing needed is a greater flow of people being deposited at the bottom of the Piccadilly Line escalators, where already the slightest problem results in people blocking back onto the escalators and a diamond being pressed.
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Nov 26, 2015 23:24:45 GMT
There is also the awkward moment when you step onto an escalator that isn't moving and that split second moment your body thinks it's moving and you slow down. Am I alone in this? That is a fascinating phenomenon. Sensory input comes from eyes, muscles and joints, and the inner ear on both sides, and is sent to the brain, where it is integrated with learned information. If there is a mismatch, we feel unsteady. Walking on a stationary escalator, the information that our body sends to the brain doesn't match what our brain remembers as what if feels like to stand on a moving escalator. Thats what causes vertigo -e.g. if there are crystals floating in the fluid in the inner ear, which confuse the tiny hairs that move in a certain direction when we turn our head, causing the brain to get information that doesn't match what has been learned in the past. I work as a GP and frequently use 'stepping onto a stationery escalator' to explain why my patients feel dizzy when they have a problem with their inner ear. I suppose it's the human version of a signal failure! You are really screwed if you've had a cerebellar stroke, because you can feel dizzy all the time, since everything that has been learned is forgotten, causing the brain to work in an uncoordinated fashion leading to the appearance of the person walking like they are drunk all the time. Maybe we need doctors corner as a thread! I think I've got a trapped nerve in my arm
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 26, 2015 23:49:05 GMT
There is also the awkward moment when you step onto an escalator that isn't moving and that split second moment your body thinks it's moving and you slow down. Am I alone in this? This was discussed recently in the Guardian newspaper's "Notes & Queries" column. Part of the difficulty in using a stationary escalator seems to be that the steps are much bigger than on an ordinary flight of stairs, as the treads are made big enough to stand on. On a fixed staircase the treads are usually much smaller (apparently the sum of the riser and the tread should equal about 2 feet for maximum ease of climbing). The variable riser height at the start of the escalator (and at the end) is also disconcerting (as is a flight of normal stairs with one step a different size from the rest - this is because we are judging our pace not from the step we are on but the one we can see slightly further ahead, having been habituated to expect them to be the same size)
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 26, 2015 23:51:50 GMT
If they are going to devote staff time to shouting at people through megaphones, they should be telling people on the right to step forwards if the step in front of them is clear. They run well below capacity because of this. The flow rates through gatelines are also supposedly balanced against escalator speed. I also worry about the mechanics of the escalator, as you can already feel them sagging at some stations when a heavier person or an elephant foot walks or runs up them. Can they take the weight? Besides which, we get little enough exercise as it is! Being forced to stand... ugh. If I am standing on an escalator I like to leave a step in front of me. Its about personal space, modesty, etc. However, note my use of the word "if". Thats because I too rarely stand on escalators, although I prefer to walk and not run. Simon
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 27, 2015 1:15:36 GMT
Personal space means that strangers will normally stand on an escalator at a density of 1 person every other treads, however when people who are intimate with each other will stand on adjacent treads. What the threshold degree of friendship with a person is to omit the middle step varies with different people.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 27, 2015 7:30:01 GMT
Personal space means that strangers will normally stand on an escalator at a density of 1 person every other treads, however when people who are intimate with each other will stand on adjacent treads. What the threshold degree of friendship with a person is to omit the middle step varies with different people. And then they go and cram themselves into trains..........
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Post by stapler on Nov 27, 2015 8:30:01 GMT
It was certainly tried (largely unsuccessfully) at Oxford Circus in about 1999, during escalator refurbishment. Wouldn't it be more successful, if there were 2 escalators, of having one "walk both sides" and the other "stand both sides"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 9:33:22 GMT
It does not seem to work well... Buzzfeed articleYet, it works better than in germany, as the people here just stand on the left, the right or in the center. It is great "fun" to slalom up and down escalators here, especially when you are in a hurry.
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 27, 2015 9:55:58 GMT
Sensory input comes from eyes, muscles and joints, and the inner ear on both sides, and is sent to the brain, where it is integrated with learned information. If there is a mismatch, we feel unsteady. Walking on a stationary escalator, the information that our body sends to the brain doesn't match what our brain remembers as what if feels like to stand on a moving escalator. Now, what if somebody is a night shift station assistant who spends a lot of time walking around stations with stationary escalators? Does their brain become re-programmed to be more accepting of such escalators?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 27, 2015 10:35:56 GMT
I often find myself having to walk down a stationary travolator (no prizes for guessing which station.....), which for some reason seems harder than walking down it when it is moving. I don't think it is simply that you have to do it for longer, nor that you have no choice about standing or walking, as I quite happily stride down it when it is moving. It could just be that when everyone is walking, we end up walking at the pace of the slowest person ahead of us, which means everyone else is unable to go as fast as the speed they would find most comfortable.
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Post by stapler on Nov 27, 2015 11:29:40 GMT
The travelators at the Tesco in Highams Park area a real challenge, NF, in that you want to hare down them, but your way is generally obstructed by some div with a trolley! There is no rule posted about parking trolleys to one side.
This is akin to LU escalators and persons with gigantic suitcases. And I've never seen them stationary.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 27, 2015 11:33:41 GMT
Personal space means that strangers will normally stand on an escalator at a density of 1 person every other treads, however when people who are intimate with each other will stand on adjacent treads. What the threshold degree of friendship with a person is to omit the middle step varies with different people. And then they go and cram themselves into trains.......... Personal space is amazingly context dependent. When I was at university in Swansea, the cue for the buses into town was regularly about 40 or more people long and people stood on average about 2ft apart from each other. When the bus arrived the length of the queue halved, despite containing the same number of people, as everyone moved closer together. I really wish I had a video of it as it would have made an excellent example of exactly what we are talking about here!
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 27, 2015 12:29:29 GMT
I often find myself having to walk down a stationary travolator (no prizes for guessing which station.....), which for some reason seems harder than walking down it when it is moving. I don't think it is simply that you have to do it for longer, nor that you have no choice about standing or walking, as I quite happily stride down it when it is moving. It could just be that when everyone is walking, we end up walking at the pace of the slowest person ahead of us, which means everyone else is unable to go as fast as the speed they would find most comfortable. You are seeing down instead of up & maybe are subconsciously aware, or even, more consciously aware, of the consequences of falling over going down. Just on a personal level, I rarely check on cats rushing up our stairs when walking up them, but religiously do so when going down. Which is nothing to do with Tube escalators, but I wonder if the same principle applies there?
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Post by patstonuk on Nov 27, 2015 13:00:00 GMT
If they are going to devote staff time to shouting at people through megaphones, they should be telling people on the right to step forwards if the step in front of them is clear. They run well below capacity because of this. The flow rates through gatelines are also supposedly balanced against escalator speed. I also worry about the mechanics of the escalator, as you can already feel them sagging at some stations when a heavier person or an elephant foot walks or runs up them. Can they take the weight? Besides which, we get little enough exercise as it is! Being forced to stand... ugh. If I am standing on an escalator I like to leave a step in front of me. Its about personal space, modesty, etc. However, note my use of the word "if". Thats because I too rarely stand on escalators, although I prefer to walk and not run. Simon There is an issue other than 'personal space' which prompts me to leave at least one tread unoccupied in front of me, and that is simply to avoid colliding with those in front who seem incapable of stepping off cleanly and getting out of the way of those following. Sadly, when there is a failure to move smartly, those behind have the unpalatable choice of standing on a moving escalator as it disappears from underneath their feet, or shouldering aside those obstructing passage.
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