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36tph
Apr 20, 2016 19:57:23 GMT
Post by superteacher on Apr 20, 2016 19:57:23 GMT
Yes, I noticed that looking at WTT 39. The obvious question is why? Does it not just increase the pressure on station staff/train operators to keep the service on time? For 36 tph, even the quarter minute intervals are not small enough to cope with the gap between trains. So it makes sense to change to a 5 second resolution. When trying to run such a high frequency service with any degree of reliability, it will come down to seconds here and there. |
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Post by kateyay on Apr 22, 2016 17:22:35 GMT
Timetables on some lines are now being created using software which allows for a five-second resolution.
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36tph
Apr 22, 2016 21:24:23 GMT
Post by Dmitri on Apr 22, 2016 21:24:23 GMT
Imagine the frequency you could run without passengers getting in the way! 48 tph with conventional colour light signalling. Probably more using advanced stuff  . When trying to run such a high frequency service with any degree of reliability, it will come down to seconds here and there. And you'll have to avoid delays like plague. |
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Post by will on May 15, 2016 13:02:22 GMT
Working time table 39 now implemented from today (May 15th) onwards:
All Week
This timetable introduces end to end running between Walthamstow Central and Brixton all day, with no trains terminating at
Seven Sisters except for periods of starting and stabling. This increases service frequency between Seven Sisters and
Walthamstow Central generally from 25 to 34 trains per hour at peak times and from 18 to 27 trains per hour at off-peak times.
Mondays to Fridays
The service around the shoulders of the evening peak has been enhanced to 30 trains per hour for approximately 30 minutes
before and 20 minutes after the evening peak.
Saturdays
An afternoon peak service has been introduced, with a train service frequency of 30 trains per hour between 16.00 and 19.30.
Really shows just how busy the tube is now operating 30tph on Saturday nights when that was the peak frequency in the weekday peaks just a few years ago. Is this the final timetable before 36tph is introduced or will they go to 35tph? |
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36tph
May 24, 2016 10:32:23 GMT
Post by stephenk on May 24, 2016 10:32:23 GMT
The 5 second resolution in WTT36 is about time!
The improvements to the Victoria Line since the upgrade are impressive to say the least. I honestly thought they would struggle to run 33tph.
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36tph
May 24, 2016 17:22:22 GMT
Post by superteacher on May 24, 2016 17:22:22 GMT
Saturdays
An afternoon peak service has been introduced, with a train service frequency of 30 trains per hour between 16.00 and 19.30.
Really shows just how busy the tube is now operating 30tph on Saturday nights when that was the peak frequency in the weekday peaks just a few years ago. Is this the final timetable before 36tph is introduced or will they go to 35tph? In fact the Vic never even managed 30 tph in the peak before the upgrade. 27 tph was about the limit. |
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Post by will on May 22, 2017 14:24:57 GMT
According to the Standard a new service has finally been introduced with 36tph operating in the peaks today 22nd May. looks like the Victoria line upgrade is finally complete. The line is now the second most frequent in the world and the Jubilee is next  |
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 22, 2017 15:26:59 GMT
According to the Standard a new service has finally been introduced with 36tph operating in the peaks today 22nd May. looks like the Victoria line upgrade is finally complete. The line is now the second most frequent in the world and the Jubilee is next |
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36tph
May 26, 2017 16:17:03 GMT
Post by will on May 26, 2017 16:17:03 GMT
According to the Standard a new service has finally been introduced with 36tph operating in the peaks today 22nd May. looks like the Victoria line upgrade is finally complete. The line is now the second most frequent in the world and the Jubilee is next Where did you get your info from, I looked for the official working timetable but only to find a document giving last train times thanks |
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MoreToJack
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36tph
May 26, 2017 16:44:00 GMT
Post by MoreToJack on May 26, 2017 16:44:00 GMT
This info comes directly from the latest working timetable, which is available to staff on the Intranet. It was (briefly) available on the TfL website, but some WTTs seem to have been replaced with the document mentioned.
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cso
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36tph
May 26, 2017 21:35:53 GMT
Post by cso on May 26, 2017 21:35:53 GMT
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MoreToJack
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36tph
May 26, 2017 21:38:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by MoreToJack on May 26, 2017 21:38:29 GMT
Aha, looks like they've fixed the error! Wonderful stuff. |
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36tph
May 27, 2017 23:17:47 GMT
Post by spsmiler on May 27, 2017 23:17:47 GMT
Imagine the frequency you could run without passengers getting in the way! 48 tph with conventional colour light signalling. Probably more using advanced stuff . When trying to run such a high frequency service with any degree of reliability, it will come down to seconds here and there. And you'll have to avoid delays like plague. Easy Peasy - for a brand new route! For optimal running most (if not all) stations will have two tracks per direction of travel with a central island platform for departing passengers and twin outer platforms for arriving passengers. This will also permit an arriving train to enter the station even whilst the train before is departing. Termini will be loops, so that train drivers do not need to change ends. Platforms will have plenty of high capacity passenger entrance and exit points, so that despite very high levels of passenger movements overcrowding does not become a cause for delays. Simon |
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kkc35348
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36tph
May 28, 2017 14:36:27 GMT
Post by kkc35348 on May 28, 2017 14:36:27 GMT
There was a missed opportunity for Crossrail at Abbey Wood, being a surface station, a through termination could have been built, and the station constructed on top of that. A through termination is where the train can pass through the terminating eastbound platform, onto an extended length siding, and then back out to the other westbound track for its return trip.
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Chris M
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36tph
May 28, 2017 15:46:12 GMT
Post by Chris M on May 28, 2017 15:46:12 GMT
As was built at Heathrow T5 (although it's westbound terminating trains there of course)
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36tph
May 29, 2017 8:03:11 GMT
Post by superteacher on May 29, 2017 8:03:11 GMT
Let's keep this discussion to the Victoria line.
Is there any info as to how the 36tph service has been performing in practice?
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Post by plasmid on Jul 25, 2017 23:45:45 GMT
Let's keep this discussion to the Victoria line.
Is there any info as to how the 36tph service has been performing in practice? The Victoria line has been my commute home (not to work, cheers Goblin) for the last few months so here's what I've found. 1) Trains are either quick or slow in getting me from Vauxhall to Walthamstow Central. 2) The amount of time it takes varies by around 2-4 minutes at peak. 3) The trains are more subject to delay when a faulty human being decides to charge as the doors are closing. Announcements should be made to educate these poor souls regarding the frequency of the trains. 4) Trains are just as busy as 34TPH because they're always delayed by a few minutes (3). 5) When they do run on time the service is sublime. 6) The Victoria line (whilst ice cold in comparison to the Central at Bank in the evening peak) is getting warmer. Platform edge doors should be considered to help with this. In fact any train that is doing more than 35MPH as it enters a deep level tube station should have PED's for obvious reasons (feeding the flames, one under etc.). |
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36tph
Jul 27, 2017 14:34:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by bringbackcrouchhil on Jul 27, 2017 14:34:43 GMT
How much would PEDs/PSDs cost and how long would it take to install...
JC
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36tph
Jul 27, 2017 23:19:35 GMT
Post by snoggle on Jul 27, 2017 23:19:35 GMT
How much would PEDs/PSDs cost and how long would it take to install... JC Wild guess - many £ millions. I doubt the doors and edge structures are the issues. It is whether the platforms are strong enough to take the weight, whether services and cables are in the way and have to be moved, whether the signalling and control system can work with PEDs, if the trains have the requisite "intelligence" to work with PEDs and stop consistently enough. There are then the fire and ventilation related impacts to consider. And then there's the issue of some platforms being slightly curved and / or humped and how effectively PEDs work with that physical configuration. Most systems where I've seen / used PEDs have straight and level platforms - I'm assuming there is some logic to that other than most of the systems being fairly new. |
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Chris M
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36tph
Jul 28, 2017 0:13:16 GMT
Post by Chris M on Jul 28, 2017 0:13:16 GMT
Very gentle horizontal curves are no problem - as seen at at least one JLE platform (Westminster?). I suspect the issue with significantly horizontally curved platforms is the gap between the platform edge and the train. It is far more dangerous for someone to fall between a train and a PED than it is to fall in the same gap on a non-PED platform. There are a few reasons for this - the PEDs make it more difficult for someone who has fallen to be seen (both by others on the platform and on CCTV from the cab - the cameras point at the platform side of the PEDs I believe), it is harder for them to get themselves back on the platform if they have not gone at all left or right of the doorway (which I understand is common), there is very little to prevent a train moving if the train and PED doors close fully even if there is someone between the two (who is unlikely to be visible to platform or train staff). Obviously the bigger the gap the greater the likelihood of someone falling into it. I suspect that there are ways to mitigate these issues, but they will cost money and I have no idea how reliable they are or how much they reduce the risk by. Thinking only about the engineering then either straight sections at doorways joined by corners between them would be very easy and curved automatic doors are a thing in other walks of life (e.g. these office doors) so manufacturing curved PEDS should present few technical problems. Vertical platform height differences on the other hand I suspect will add only cost but very little if any additional risk. If all doorways are approximately level and the PED can open to the downhill side then you just need shorter PEDs and an adjusted bottom track (if the doors are not fully suspended with no bottom guides - I don't actually know) - possibly a small increase in manufacturing cost and a (maybe less small) increase in installation cost but no technical challenge. If the doorway is level but the door needs to open uphill then most likely you will likely just need to take out part of the platform edge that is not adjacent to the door - again no technical challenge and likely the same manufacturing cost as a downhill opening door. The installation cost will be greater though. If the doorway itself is on a slope then either the door will have to open non-horizontally or be wedge shaped - again manufacturing and installation cost increases but engineer wise it's not going to be a non-starter. |
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36tph
Jul 30, 2017 7:02:56 GMT
Post by seaeagle on Jul 30, 2017 7:02:56 GMT
Just to add that there was a survey done of most if not all Victoria Line platforms a couple of years ago regarding putting platform edge doors in, however for several reasons, (cost being the main one I would think), the idea was put on the back burner.
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Post by stephenk on Aug 17, 2017 8:51:01 GMT
I see that the 36tph service alternates 1min50sec and 1min30sec headways at Brixton. This is pretty sensible as it allows additional time for the conflicting crossover move. The headway is adjusted in both directions at Stockwell.
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Post by scheduler on Sept 2, 2017 4:21:51 GMT
I see that the 36tph service alternates 1min50sec and 1min30sec headways at Brixton. This is pretty sensible as it allows additional time for the conflicting crossover move. The headway is adjusted in both directions at Stockwell. That is called genius timetabling, which is forced by the track layout and the required tph, achieved by one of the best schedule compilers in the office. For some reason some signalling specialists fail to realise the importance of the way the terminus is signalled to the running of the high-intensity service. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Sept 2, 2017 18:36:27 GMT
Standing on the SB platform at Euston on Thursday, I had just missed a train. The next one was already less than 1 minute away, the 2nd indicated at 1 minute and even the 4th train was only 7 minutes away. That's pretty damn good. Now the platform VIDs need to be replrogrwmmed to count down in minutes and seconds.
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Ben
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36tph
Sept 3, 2017 1:46:17 GMT
Post by Ben on Sept 3, 2017 1:46:17 GMT
I see that the 36tph service alternates 1min50sec and 1min30sec headways at Brixton. This is pretty sensible as it allows additional time for the conflicting crossover move. The headway is adjusted in both directions at Stockwell. That is called genius timetabling, which is forced by the track layout and the required tph, achieved by one of the best schedule compilers in the office. For some reason some signalling specialists fail to realise the importance of the way the terminus is signalled to the running of the high-intensity service. I am fairly surprised to hear that, the signalling department used to be very good at making minor modifications to signals to improve throughout restrictions and timing, at least until the infracos took over. At which point it became better at *claiming* it was very good at that, so I understand... :X |
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36tph
Sept 3, 2017 6:35:39 GMT
Post by 100andthirty on Sept 3, 2017 6:35:39 GMT
The points (sorry) being made about headways and timetabling are features of the Victoria line and, for that matter, any railway using a two platform terminus with a scissors crossover on the approach side. The timetabling is loaded into the signalling control system, and the trains are regulated at stations or on the run to prevent catching up the train in front as necessary.
The Infraco had little influence on the signalling as it was implemented by Invensys (now Siemens Automation) who also carried out the changes to enable the improvement from 33tph to 36tph.
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36tph
Sept 19, 2017 18:45:25 GMT
Post by superteacher on Sept 19, 2017 18:45:25 GMT
Interesting video from Geoff:
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