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Post by drdan888 on May 21, 2015 22:37:18 GMT
It looks different to the current interactive one on the TfL site (for example this has the cable car whereas that one doesn't. The PDF on the tube map page is still the old map.
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Post by drdan888 on May 21, 2015 22:39:56 GMT
But it is the same as the one linked to in the press release.
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Post by pridley on May 22, 2015 3:56:11 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on May 22, 2015 21:23:20 GMT
@spsmiller If I understood Stapler's email correctly, the 1940s diveunder at Stratford was not just proposed but provided. It has been in usee ever since, by all trains between Stratford and Leyton. I think you will find that the GE lines out of Liv Street handled rather more than 22 tph in 1980, and certainly more than 18 in 2014. The difference is that the rise in outer suburban commuting, fuelled by the boom in house prices, has led to a greater proportion of services running to destinations way beyond Shenfield, and these are presumably not included in your statistics. Ah but, the tunnel between Stratford and Leyton is tube sized... so surely it was never intended for LNER trains. My statistics only looked at passenger trains which called at some / all intermediate stations between Stratford and Romford. Outer suburbans make their first stops at Romford or Shenfield, or even further out, so are of no interest to people who live at Forest Gate, Ilford, Goodmayes, etc. The reason why I compared the 1980 and 2014 timetables is because it is so hard to board the overcrowded mobile sardine tins (also known as trains) at Stratford, and I wanted to try to find out why. This I did find... in 2014 there are 6 fewer trains in the same time period (16 compared with 22). What I have not been able to discover is whether the TOC has the same number of trains as BR had in 1980. Maybe the fleet has been diluted, or they are trying to reduce operating costs by not having enough trains to carry all the passengers at busy times. Simon
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Post by stapler on May 23, 2015 8:00:29 GMT
Yes - the Stratford-Leyton tunnel is of course tube sized. But until 1971, a surface connection was kept between Leyton Junction and Loughton Branch Junction with (latterly) early morning DMUs. The difference at Stratford 1980-2015 is surely the number of fast stoppers there?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 23, 2015 9:15:59 GMT
Because the "New Works" extensions were to operate over LNER lines (both ex-GNR and ex-GER), some of the trains built for these lines were to be the property of the LNER. (Similarly, the LNWR owned some of the Bakerloo's Watford Joint Stock, and the LTSR owned some District cars) As it turned out, none of the LNER-owned cars (which were all 1938 stock) ever ran on the Central Line, as by the time the Central got new trains (1959/62 stock), all the railways (including the Tube) had been nationalised and such accounting tricks were no longer necessary. www.lner.info/locos/Electric/tube.shtml
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Post by stapler on May 23, 2015 11:55:06 GMT
Pity they didn't paint them varnished teak - "effect"!
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Post by ashlar on May 24, 2015 11:36:04 GMT
There's now a rumour on Facebook that the much-hated Walthamstow Central "cage" will now be removed when TfL take over.
Not sure of the veracity of this, nor whether it means a gate-line move for the tunnel and an "unbricking" on the bricked up entrance on the other platform. My guess is that it may just mean a rebuilt staircase from the tunnel to Selbourne Rd.
Anyone else heard this?
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Post by jukes on May 24, 2015 13:44:39 GMT
There's now a rumour on Facebook that the much-hated Walthamstow Central "cage" will now be removed when TfL take over. Not sure of the veracity of this, nor whether it means a gate-line move for the tunnel and an "unbricking" on the bricked up entrance on the other platform. My guess is that it may just mean a rebuilt staircase from the tunnel to Selbourne Rd. Anyone else heard this? Never believe a rumour until its been officially denied.
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Post by peterc on May 24, 2015 15:33:24 GMT
The other day I encountered a passenger trying to find platform 1 who had walked through the subway and found herself outside the station. Assuming that she had missed the entrance to the platform she had turned round and gone back.
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Post by snoggle on May 24, 2015 17:43:30 GMT
There's now a rumour on Facebook that the much-hated Walthamstow Central "cage" will now be removed when TfL take over. Not sure of the veracity of this, nor whether it means a gate-line move for the tunnel and an "unbricking" on the bricked up entrance on the other platform. My guess is that it may just mean a rebuilt staircase from the tunnel to Selbourne Rd. Anyone else heard this? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Anyone who thinks TfL are not involved with the gating of Walthamstow Central is living in cloud cuckoo land. TfL / LOROL and Abellio have been working together on the transition for 18 months. I simply refuse to believe that TfL / LOROL have not explicitly agreed the gating of Walthamstow because they would have to budget for the gate operation / maintenance costs and the associated staffing. Abellio had zero incentive to spend the money because they will earn nothing from the gates in terms of increased revenue. Are the gates even live yet? I haven't been up to the station for a while but even if they are switched on now Abellio will have earned, what, 2-3 weeks worth of extra revenue? Makes no financial sense for them whatsoever. I read recently that it is TfL's intention to gate all of the stations they are taking over so why would Walthamstow Central, with one of the highest revenue levels of any of the stations, be an exception?
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Post by flippyff on May 24, 2015 21:02:21 GMT
There's now a rumour on Facebook that the much-hated Walthamstow Central "cage" will now be removed when TfL take over. Not sure of the veracity of this, nor whether it means a gate-line move for the tunnel and an "unbricking" on the bricked up entrance on the other platform. My guess is that it may just mean a rebuilt staircase from the tunnel to Selbourne Rd. Anyone else heard this? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Anyone who thinks TfL are not involved with the gating of Walthamstow Central is living in cloud cuckoo land. TfL / LOROL and Abellio have been working together on the transition for 18 months. I simply refuse to believe that TfL / LOROL have not explicitly agreed the gating of Walthamstow because they would have to budget for the gate operation / maintenance costs and the associated staffing. Abellio had zero incentive to spend the money because they will earn nothing from the gates in terms of increased revenue. Are the gates even live yet? I haven't been up to the station for a while but even if they are switched on now Abellio will have earned, what, 2-3 weeks worth of extra revenue? Makes no financial sense for them whatsoever. I read recently that it is TfL's intention to gate all of the stations they are taking over so why would Walthamstow Central, with one of the highest revenue levels of any of the stations, be an exception? I went through there yesterday, there were notes on the barriers telling people to use the Oyster readers on the platforms. Simon
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Post by stapler on May 24, 2015 21:07:00 GMT
<<I read recently that it is TfL's intention to gate all of the stations they are taking over so why would Walthamstow Central, with one of the highest revenue levels of any of the stations, be an exception?>> This is where this thread came in some months ago! As for Walthamstow Central, it was a crass idea to start with and is even crasser now!
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Post by longhedge on May 25, 2015 8:09:50 GMT
<<I read recently that it is TfL's intention to gate all of the stations they are taking over so why would Walthamstow Central, with one of the highest revenue levels of any of the stations, be an exception?>> This is where this thread came in some months ago! As for Walthamstow Central, it was a crass idea to start with and is even crasser now! I am not sure how you would be able to `gateline ` Clapham High Street and Wandsworth Road would require canopies. Wait and see I guess!!
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Post by jukes on May 25, 2015 16:27:53 GMT
<<I read recently that it is TfL's intention to gate all of the stations they are taking over so why would Walthamstow Central, with one of the highest revenue levels of any of the stations, be an exception?>> This is where this thread came in some months ago! As for Walthamstow Central, it was a crass idea to start with and is even crasser now! I am not sure how you would be able to `gateline ` Clapham High Street and Wandsworth Road would require canopies. Wait and see I guess!! At the moment TfL plan to gate some but not all of the WA stations they are taking over on 31 May. The stations that will not be gated in the foreseeable future are: Silver Street, White Heart Lane, Bruce Grove, Stamford Hill, London Fields and Cambridge Heath. The gating programme is in the public domain as follows: Walthamstow Central by May 2015(!!); Theobalds Grove and Bush Hill Park by September 2015; Southbury and St James Street shortly after September 2015; Turkey Street and Rectory Road by May 2016 and Bethnal Green, Highams Park, Stoke Newington, Clapton and Wood Street by May 2017 latest. Stations already gated are: Cheshunt, Enfield Town, Edmonton Green, Seven Sisters, Hackney Downs, Chingford and Liverpool Street. (Emerson Park is also not to be gated!)
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Post by snoggle on May 25, 2015 18:49:35 GMT
At the moment TfL plan to gate some but not all of the WA stations they are taking over on 31 May. The stations that will not be gated in the foreseeable future are: Silver Street, White Heart Lane, Bruce Grove, Stamford Hill, London Fields and Cambridge Heath. The gating programme is in the public domain as follows: Walthamstow Central by May 2015(!!); Theobalds Grove and Bush Hill Park by September 2015; Southbury and St James Street shortly after September 2015; Turkey Street and Rectory Road by May 2016 and Bethnal Green, Highams Park, Stoke Newington, Clapton and Wood Street by May 2017 latest. Stations already gated are: Cheshunt, Enfield Town, Edmonton Green, Seven Sisters, Hackney Downs, Chingford and Liverpool Street. (Emerson Park is also not to be gated!) Interesting to see that list - thanks for sharing it. Not surprised to see Silver Street and White Hart Lane on the "not" list. Football traffic at the latter will always be a problem and there must be land ownership issues at Silver Street given the stairs go straight down to the pavement. I wonder if old BR land was relinquished when the North Circular works were done. Interesting they think they can gate Clapton but not Bruce Grove. There's not such space at Clapton unless they're going to knock something down in the ticket hall. Something tells me the Walthamstow gates go live on 31 May when TfL take over thus meeting the May deadline.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 19:15:52 GMT
Just noticed on the lastest Tube Map there is still a National Rail logo next to Seven Sisters and Edmonton Green. What services will be stopping there after 31 May anyway?
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Post by snoggle on May 25, 2015 19:35:34 GMT
Just noticed on the lastest Tube Map there is still a National Rail logo next to Seven Sisters and Edmonton Green. What services will be stopping there after 31 May anyway? Semi fast Abellio trains from Hertford East run that way and will continue to do so after 31 May. That is why the NR symbol is shown at those stops. They also call at Hackney Downs and it also retains the NR symbol on the new map.
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Post by jukes on May 25, 2015 21:56:24 GMT
Silver Street might be gated in the future if it can be worked into an Access for All scheme, after all its very near North Middlesex Hospital. White Heart Lane could be tackled also if TfL have the brains to go after S106 money from the massive redevelopment and regeneration of the Spurs ground. Stamford Hill could qualify because of the comprehensive regeneration of the Woodberry Down estate.
On the issue of NR symbols at Seven Sisters and Edmonton Green - there will I believe be just 5 southbound semi-fast trains in the morning peak and 5 northbound in the evening peak Monday to Friday.
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Post by sawb on May 26, 2015 7:44:48 GMT
I am not sure how you would be able to `gateline ` Clapham High Street and Wandsworth Road would require canopies. Wait and see I guess!! At the moment TfL plan to gate some but not all of the WA stations they are taking over on 31 May. The stations that will not be gated in the foreseeable future are: Silver Street, White Heart Lane, Bruce Grove, Stamford Hill, London Fields and Cambridge Heath. The gating programme is in the public domain as follows: Walthamstow Central by May 2015(!!); Theobalds Grove and Bush Hill Park by September 2015; Southbury and St James Street shortly after September 2015; Turkey Street and Rectory Road by May 2016 and Bethnal Green, Highams Park, Stoke Newington, Clapton and Wood Street by May 2017 latest. Stations already gated are: Cheshunt, Enfield Town, Edmonton Green, Seven Sisters, Hackney Downs, Chingford and Liverpool Street. (Emerson Park is also not to be gated!) Not really surprised that Emerson Park won't be gated. It's such a quiet station, the costs almost certainly outweigh the benefits.
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Post by Chris W on May 26, 2015 19:35:26 GMT
Living close to Brentwood station, today I received an email that contained the following text: So charges may fall for those towards the far east...
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Post by ashlar on May 28, 2015 20:59:46 GMT
There's now a rumour on Facebook that the much-hated Walthamstow Central "cage" will now be removed when TfL take over. Not sure of the veracity of this, nor whether it means a gate-line move for the tunnel and an "unbricking" on the bricked up entrance on the other platform. My guess is that it may just mean a rebuilt staircase from the tunnel to Selbourne Rd. Anyone else heard this? For those of you who missed the other thread, this has now been confirmed by TfL! The cage and bricked up barrier will be removed for an integrated gate line with the tube. Sanity prevailed!
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Post by snoggle on May 29, 2015 8:39:24 GMT
There's now a rumour on Facebook that the much-hated Walthamstow Central "cage" will now be removed when TfL take over. Not sure of the veracity of this, nor whether it means a gate-line move for the tunnel and an "unbricking" on the bricked up entrance on the other platform. My guess is that it may just mean a rebuilt staircase from the tunnel to Selbourne Rd. Anyone else heard this? For those of you who missed the other thread, this has now been confirmed by TfL! The cage and bricked up barrier will be removed for an integrated gate line with the tube. Sanity prevailed! Hang on - no one said the cage is being removed. All that TfL said was "an integrated scheme" and they gave no more detail. It might be that some or all of what has been installed is removed but no one has said this will happen. We must wait and see what is done. I don't mind putting feedback from Twitter on here but people shouldn't run away with what is said.
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Post by ashlar on May 29, 2015 9:57:20 GMT
This is a good point, and TfL Twitter sessions have made factually incorrect statements before, but I can see no other way of interpreting this tweet:
short of building a whole new set of staircases behind the current LU gateline.
Of course, this Tweet may just be wrong, but other forum members (e.g. Jukes in the other thread) have implied that they have heard the same from insiders at TfL.
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Post by ashlar on May 29, 2015 9:57:56 GMT
PS The Twitter integration on this forum is brilliant!
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Post by snoggle on May 29, 2015 14:32:35 GMT
This is a good point, and TfL Twitter sessions have made factually incorrect statements before, but I can see no other way of interpreting this tweet: short of building a whole new set of staircases behind the current LU gateline. Of course, this Tweet may just be wrong, but other forum members (e.g. Jukes in the other thread) have implied that they have heard the same from insiders at TfL. The point though, and sorry to be pedantic, is that TfL did not mention what was going to be removed. You are still interpreting what was said when it was clear from an earlier tweet in the sequence that work with LU is still going on about what to do at WWCS. A pretty fundamental problem is how do you install a gateline in the subway link and still preserve access to the LU ticket machines? Not at all easy to do given how many people use the subway link compared to other exits. Even if you stagger the gateline you may end up with two entry and two exit walkways and still very limited queuing space for the ticket machines. It is not really practical to remove ticket selling facilities from the bus station subway and instead force people into the NR station which has lost a lot of ticket selling capacity recently. It would also be vastly expensive to excavate the subway to create space for ticket machines in a different place and even then you end getting too close to the lift access and the bottom of the big stairs. At the other end is the small staircase and again you can't really put a gateline too close to stairs - the existing main gateline is very much a compromise and not really ideal at all given its proximity to stairs, corridors, escalators and the ticket office. You'd never design that from new. It really is a very difficult task to gate Walthamstow Central at the perimeter in its current layout despite the opened out ticket halls at surface level. LU won't want to have any "holes" for people to get through.
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Post by ashlar on May 29, 2015 14:44:54 GMT
Let's see what they come up with. They have the whole of August to reconfigure that tunnel - it may be a once in a decade opportunity to sort this out properly.
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Post by jukes on May 30, 2015 15:57:51 GMT
LO, NR Contractors and TfL staff out today getting as much 'stickering' of station names done as possible and putting up a few new timetable and information posters and maps. New timetable booklets available too. This is just to let people know that TfL has arrived! But awful lot to do and expectations need to be carefully managed!
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Post by peterc on May 30, 2015 16:44:21 GMT
Why not put the ticket machines upstairs in the bus station itself?
No doubt the bus people won't want to dirty their hands with train stuff and the railway people wouldn't want anybody elses hands on a fragment of their empire but apart from that is there any technical objection?
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Post by pridley on May 30, 2015 17:41:48 GMT
I went past Cambridge Heath Station at 1:30am last night. Cleaning gang working hard with all lights on. Lights on at Edmonton Green come 3am.
Abellio never had cleaning gangs working throughout the nights. I wonder if they ever had cleaning gangs at all!!
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