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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2014 13:39:27 GMT
TfL have opened a consultation on the proposal to extend London Overground services on the Barking - Gospel Oak route to Barking Riverside Consultation page linkThere are also public exhibition sessions planned in the Barking / Thames View Estate / Barking Reach areas.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 16:01:56 GMT
Thank you for telling me this. I know what I'm doing on the 20th!
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Post by Chris M on Sept 8, 2014 17:07:43 GMT
That looks good in principle, except for it being discussed as a replacemet for the DLR extension to Dagenham Dock rather than as a supplement to it; and the lack of an intermediate station giving a park and ride for the A13 and a local station for the communities there.
I have made both points in my submission as I wont be able to get to any of the events.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 17:11:21 GMT
That looks good in principle, except for it being discussed as a replacemet for the DLR extension to Dagenham Dock rather than as a supplement to it; and the lack of an intermediate station giving a park and ride for the A13 and a local station for the communities there. I have made both points in my submission as I wont be able to get to any of the events. I agree. The Dag Dock extension should still happen!
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Post by ashlar on Sept 8, 2014 17:40:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 17:43:50 GMT
Yes, I like it. Maybe the Overground will take over some more lines in the future. Maybe.
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Post by rsdworker on Sept 8, 2014 17:55:54 GMT
i think romford to upmisnter should replaced with london underground or small tramway since its isolated from rest of Overground network
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 17:58:01 GMT
i think romford to upmisnter should replaced with london underground or small tramway since its isolated from rest of Overground network It's going to be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:01:07 GMT
If/when this project goes ahead it will mean better terminating facilities at the east end of the line, but without concomitant improvements to the Gospel Oak bay arrangements the capacity enhancement may be of limited scope. Unless of course, there could be through-running onto the NLL...hmmm...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:08:01 GMT
If/when this project goes ahead it will mean better terminating facilities at the east end of the line, but without concomitant improvements to the Gospel Oak bay arrangements the capacity enhancement may be of limited scope. Unless of course, there could be through-running onto the NLL...hmmm... Shouldn't be too long seeing it is not a long distance from the current terminus.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2014 18:16:53 GMT
That looks good in principle, except for it being discussed as a replacemet for the DLR extension to Dagenham Dock rather than as a supplement to it; and the lack of an intermediate station giving a park and ride for the A13 and a local station for the communities there. I have made both points in my submission as I wont be able to get to any of the events. Regrettably there is no vision and no plan for the Dagenham Dock DLR extension. It is not in the Mayor's 2050 Plan so you can wave goodbye to it even though I think it would be beneficial and especially for Barking Reach. I also agree with you about the lack of intermediate stations - there is already a bit of a lobby for a stop near Renwick Road and I think one near Ripple Road would be well used and beneficial. The proposed location of the new Riverside station, while allowing an extension under the Thames, means it is away from existing housing at Barking Reach and Thames View meaning some people face a long walk or a bus ride to access it. In turn the new line will be surrounded by new housing meaning it's likely to be overloaded only a few years after opening.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:25:51 GMT
That looks good in principle, except for it being discussed as a replacemet for the DLR extension to Dagenham Dock rather than as a supplement to it; and the lack of an intermediate station giving a park and ride for the A13 and a local station for the communities there. I have made both points in my submission as I wont be able to get to any of the events. Regrettably there is no vision and no plan for the Dagenham Dock DLR extension. It is not in the Mayor's 2050 Plan so you can wave goodbye to it even though I think it would be beneficial and especially for Barking Reach. Yes, I think the Dag Dock extension should still happen and if they don't want it to get in the way of the Overground, one word. Underground! Build it underground so there would be no major alterations to the location of the LO station. Also, they could take it further to Romford via. Dagenham Heathway if it is underground which would be GREAT for even more areas!
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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2014 18:28:15 GMT
I know people like new maps but that one has several errors on it. I have emailed TfL about it. The errors relate to where step free access will be on a 2026 map (based on current knowledge / projects). Hanwell, Whitechapel, Maryland, Seven Kings and Manor Park should all be shown as accessible but aren't. Quite how Whitechapel, the subject of a massive rebuild was missed I know not. The Mayor and DfT have made public commitments about the 4 "missing" Crossrail stations being made accessible by 2019. There is also an odd treatment of Overground accessibility. Blackhorse Road is shown as accessible even though the scheme is delayed. There are also schemes for Queens Park, West Hampstead, Peckham Rye and Seven Sisters in the committed Access For All programme which are not reflected on the map. It is also a little bit sad that TfL do not envisage the Overground being much bigger in 2026 than it will be in mid 2015 (Riverside extension and Old Oak Common excepted). No Hounslow to Hendon via Old Oak Common line shown for example.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 8, 2014 18:35:28 GMT
That looks good in principle, except for it being discussed as a replacemet for the DLR extension to Dagenham Dock rather than as a supplement to it; and the lack of an intermediate station giving a park and ride for the A13 and a local station for the communities there. I have made both points in my submission as I wont be able to get to any of the events. Regrettably there is no vision and no plan for the Dagenham Dock DLR extension. It is not in the Mayor's 2050 Plan so you can wave goodbye to it even though I think it would be beneficial and especially for Barking Reach. I also agree with you about the lack of intermediate stations - there is already a bit of a lobby for a stop near Renwick Road and I think one near Ripple Road would be well used and beneficial. The proposed location of the new Riverside station, while allowing an extension under the Thames, means it is away from existing housing at Barking Reach and Thames View meaning some people face a long walk or a bus ride to access it. In turn the new line will be surrounded by new housing meaning it's likely to be overloaded only a few years after opening. I believe they need both lines. The DLR should also then extend to Dagenham Heathway (with further new stations) to complete connectivity within the area ie DLR <===> LUL District Line.
The proposed LO branch is too tentative alone, as with most dead-end branches, because there's just one way and one destination; what about Barking Riverside <====> Dagenham or Riverside <====> Docklands journeys? Be interesting to see if they've surveyed those and reckon there's no call, won't it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:36:06 GMT
It is also a little bit sad that TfL do not envisage the Overground being much bigger in 2026 than it will be in mid 2015 (Riverside extension and Old Oak Common excepted). No Hounslow to Hendon via Old Oak Common line shown for example. It could also take over the Hampton Court and Shepperton lines from Clapham Junction. Maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:43:40 GMT
Regrettably there is no vision and no plan for the Dagenham Dock DLR extension. It is not in the Mayor's 2050 Plan so you can wave goodbye to it even though I think it would be beneficial and especially for Barking Reach. I also agree with you about the lack of intermediate stations - there is already a bit of a lobby for a stop near Renwick Road and I think one near Ripple Road would be well used and beneficial. The proposed location of the new Riverside station, while allowing an extension under the Thames, means it is away from existing housing at Barking Reach and Thames View meaning some people face a long walk or a bus ride to access it. In turn the new line will be surrounded by new housing meaning it's likely to be overloaded only a few years after opening. I believe they need both lines. The DLR should also then extend to Dagenham Heathway (with further new stations) to complete connectivity within the area ie DLR <===> LUL District Line.
The proposed LO branch is too tentative alone, as with most dead-end branches, because there's just one way and one destination; what about Barking Riverside <====> Dagenham or Riverside <====> Docklands journeys? Be interesting to see if they've surveyed those and reckon there's no call, won't it? True. I mentioned this earlier. They should take the DLR from Dag Dock to Romford via. Heathway if it gets built underground. It would make a tremendous impact on the areas it goes to: Dagenham Dock Dagenham Chequers Broad Street Dagenham Heathway Oxlow Lane Heath Park Dagenham Becontree Heath or: Dagenham Heathway Halbutt Street Five Elms Becontree Heath Rush Green Roneo Corner Romford Romford Market A The reason they are building this extension is because they are building new houses, shops, school etc. round there. It wouldn't be useful now but, it would be in 2050. You gotta plan for the future, ya know.
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Post by ashlar on Sept 8, 2014 18:48:02 GMT
It is also a little bit sad that TfL do not envisage the Overground being much bigger in 2026 than it will be in mid 2015 (Riverside extension and Old Oak Common excepted). No Hounslow to Hendon via Old Oak Common line shown for example. It could also take over the Hampton Court and Shepperton lines from Clapham Junction. Maybe. Don't read too much into this. It would be politically inflammatory for them to include any additional lines. They are planned.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:50:00 GMT
It could also take over the Hampton Court and Shepperton lines from Clapham Junction. Maybe. Don't read too much into this. It would be politically inflammatory for them to include any additional lines. They are planned. Oh, okay.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:55:43 GMT
There seems to be no mention of the East London Transit, and only a mention of integrated bus links from the station. Is the ELT this integrated 'bus '?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 18:58:07 GMT
There seems to be no mention of the East London Transit, and only a mention of integrated bus links from the station. Is the ELT this integrated 'bus '? Most likely.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 19:06:20 GMT
Will Barking Reach station be near the river to warrant a pier being built? Giving links to Woolwich and Canary Wharf?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 19:11:04 GMT
Will Barking Reach station be near the river to warrant a pier being built? Giving links to Woolwich and Canary Wharf? According to the map on the Citizen Space page, yes. Maybe there could be a riverboat extension to Dag Dock via. Thamesmead & Barking Riverside.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 21:57:30 GMT
Will Barking Reach station be near the river to warrant a pier being built? Giving links to Woolwich and Canary Wharf? According to the map on the Citizen Space page, yes. Maybe there could be a riverboat extension to Dag Dock via. Thamesmead & Barking Riverside. I personally like to see this and if the station going to be close to the river. If TFL want a hub here then you may as well set up a pier here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 21:59:21 GMT
Maybe a little shopping centre there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 23:25:59 GMT
I did note that the extension is planned to come off the main line on a viaduct. If TfL are serious about constructing R25 by 2050, then this has to incline down to at least ground level or probably sub-surface for the future tunnel under the Thames.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 9, 2014 12:20:10 GMT
I did note that the extension is planned to come off the main line on a viaduct. If TfL are serious about constructing R25 by 2050, then this has to incline down to at least ground level or probably sub-surface for the future tunnel under the Thames. TfL have added an artists impression of the Riverside station on the consultation page. The station is on a viaduct! Not sure how that is compatible with a tunnel under the Thames.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 12:29:56 GMT
I did note that the extension is planned to come off the main line on a viaduct. If TfL are serious about constructing R25 by 2050, then this has to incline down to at least ground level or probably sub-surface for the future tunnel under the Thames. This is an artist's impression of Barking Riverside Station: Looks cool, don't it? If they do make R25, it would probably cross the river on a bridge and go underground when it gets to Thamesmead, which will be fine seeing TFL want to make lots of bridges in East London. If my idea about the Dag Dock to Romford DLR thing would be possible, it looks like there would be room for platforms underground with the DLR entrance probably in the station concourse or just outside like Shadwell. By the way, I have made a thread about that on RIPAS, if you'd like to check it out.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 9, 2014 12:40:40 GMT
You wont get trains from that station onto a bridge high enough for the river in East London (cf the tall ships in Greenwich this weekend) without either it being openable in some way or some pretty serious gradients - neither seem particularly likely. So this seems to be a very insular scheme with the sole purpose of being the cheapest way to get a rail link to Barking Riverside. No thinking about other schemes, integration, future expansion, etc - although this did work for the DLR it's not a good model to follow.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 12:46:37 GMT
You wont get trains from that station onto a bridge high enough for the river in East London (cf the tall ships in Greenwich this weekend) without either it being openable in some way or some pretty serious gradients - neither seem particularly likely. So this seems to be a very insular scheme with the sole purpose of being the cheapest way to get a rail link to Barking Riverside. No thinking about other schemes, integration, future expansion, etc - although this did work for the DLR it's not a good model to follow. Okay, then. if R25 get's built, it will probably be underground from after Barking to around Plumstead or Sidcup, just after Albany Park. I still want the DLR idea to happen, though. I will always be behind that.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 9, 2014 13:02:13 GMT
i think romford to upmisnter should replaced with london underground or small tramway since its isolated from rest of Overground network It's going to be. How? You'll have to use Crossrail from Stratford to Romford or District/C2C from Barking to Upminster to connect with the rest of the Overground. Even the Enfield/Chingford group will have only two points of contact with the existing Overground - the OSIs at Walthamstow and Hackney. As for the suggestion that Overground will cover south of the river, there was a proposal to take over the SE Metro group but a number of misinformed Kent MPs kicked that into the long grass foir the duration of the next franchise. As for the SW, I can't see Stagecoach being happy about losing their captive market without being paid a lot of compensation.
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