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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 23:43:50 GMT
When the Track Recording Train & Battery Locomotives visit the Central Line during the day, how exactly do they drive them on the Underground sections as there is no signalling. Does the train drive its self, or does the operator control it and has a special system on board? Bit of a stupid question, but its been on my mind for a while
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 23:59:39 GMT
Only a small number of departmental trains are cleared for use on the Central line, I believe, including the Centrals 1962TS RATs and certainly some battery locos if not all of them. The TRT may be cleared for the Central line, although I definitely once saw a modified 1992TS with three lights at the front which appeared to be doing track inspection. All trains cleared for use on the Central, to my knowledge, are fitted with Central line ATP. I've read stuff about the running signals originally being provided with the intention that they could be used for engineering trains and the like but, to the best of my knowledge, the only trains that are allowed to run on the Central line these days have Central line ATP installed.
The trains are driven manually, though, under ATP as far as I know. They're driven by the battery loco drivers or the test drivers, depending on the train. I think the RATs are driven by the test drivers aren't they?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 0:33:12 GMT
The RAT is fitted with ATP most certainly - although as I understand not the PAC that would be needed for ATO. You can see the changeover cock in this photo (yellow, bottom left on the solebar) - www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/10963327266/L15 - L21 and L45 - L54 are the battery locos fitted with ATP - additionally L132/L133 (TRT DMs) and TMM771 tamper are fitted. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 0:46:06 GMT
Yeah the RATs don't have any Auto mode that I'm aware of, it has to be coded manual. Thus saith a commenter on the pic you linked to as well, who, by the sounds of his comment, might've been in the cab at the time?
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Post by dagdave on Jul 8, 2014 11:19:27 GMT
The Track Recording Vehicle has the same ATP system fitted to it as the Rail Adhesion Trains, it is a basic manual system and has some reliabilty issues but in general it gets the job done. The main drawback is its sensitivity to poor rail adhesion which gives an emergency brake application in the event of wheel slip. For this reason we avoid wet weather to reduce the likelyhood of getting flats.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Jul 8, 2014 11:29:11 GMT
The idea of 1962 tube stock fitted with ATO equipment would be quite ironic!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 11:42:28 GMT
Does the track recording train have TBTC equipment and victoria line ATP as well, or not?
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Post by dagdave on Jul 8, 2014 13:43:35 GMT
No, apart from normal tripcock mode the TRV only has Central Line ATP fitted. On the Victoria, Jubilee and Northern lines we now only run at night to an ITMP (Incompatible Train Movement Proceedure) which essentially means once all other trains are stabled on the line we can operate as sole train with current on.
Currently the Asset Inspection Train (AIT) only has tripcock mode but will be fitted initially with TBTC then other signalling systems will follow.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 19:22:24 GMT
With no running signals on the Northern and Jubbly, what do you do about proving the routes are secure and - for that matter - checking the correct route is set? Also, are you cleared to operate at line speed, only all the PSR boards have been covered as far as I'm aware? Are you restricted, or are you just expected to know what the PSRs are and where they begin?
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Post by domh245 on Jul 8, 2014 19:41:18 GMT
I'd imagine that when running on the S40 signalled lines on a non S40 train, a line possession would have to be taken, and to ensure that routes are secure, you would scotch and clip. As for any PSRs, there will probably be a pilot with you when you are operating, but unless it is a stock transfer, most of the time, you probably wouldn't be going very fast.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 20:12:50 GMT
In general I think that's probably quite likely, but with the Track Recording Train I've seen it around before and it usually doesn't appear to be going particularly slowly - certainly not Restricted-Manual-type speeds. I've seen it run during normal service with no appreciable delay so I always imagined it could do full line speed and I was wondering whether it would be restricted on the TBTC lines or not.
It usually goes all over a line, too, so it seems like scotching and clipping would be a bit of a to-do; but then it looks like running it at all is a bit of a to-do anyway, so you could well be spot on the money with that one.
I don't think they'd have a pilot, would they? The test drivers are qualified on all stock and all lines are they not? But you'd still want the signs cause even the crème de la crème can't be expected to know precisely where a PSR starts along a stretch of tunnel, wouldn't you agree?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 4:34:52 GMT
Some battery locos are fitted with the equipment required.
I thought I had a picture of the actual 'cpu' box (think that's what it was called) but can't find it but these will do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 23:52:15 GMT
The Track Recording Vehicle has the same ATP system fitted to it as the Rail Adhesion Trains, it is a basic manual system and has some reliabilty issues but in general it gets the job done. The main drawback is its sensitivity to poor rail adhesion which gives an emergency brake application in the event of wheel slip. For this reason we avoid wet weather to reduce the likelyhood of getting flats. Emergency brake when you wheelslip? Must be a challenge on a 62ts! Or does it only happen if you slide? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 20:29:36 GMT
I'd imagine that when running on the S40 signalled lines on a non S40 train, a line possession would have to be taken, and to ensure that routes are secure, you would scotch and clip. As for any PSRs, there will probably be a pilot with you when you are operating, but unless it is a stock transfer, most of the time, you probably wouldn't be going very fast. Route secure is used from the control room. No need for scotch and clip anymore. |
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 12, 2014 21:31:04 GMT
I'd imagine that when running on the S40 signalled lines on a non S40 train, a line possession would have to be taken, and to ensure that routes are secure, you would scotch and clip. As for any PSRs, there will probably be a pilot with you when you are operating, but unless it is a stock transfer, most of the time, you probably wouldn't be going very fast. Route secure is used from the control room. No need for scotch and clip anymore. Could you explain how Route Secure works, please? |
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Post by domh245 on Jul 12, 2014 21:42:53 GMT
I assume that the route secure (which I'm guessing is just a synonym for interlocking) isn't used in fault situations. Even swanky new software can't prevent a point fault, so there would have to be some sort of backup system just in case. Or do seltrac have that much faith in their system?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 18:36:48 GMT
I assume it is possible that it is just the case of additional point lock devices which can only be controlled from a single location. That being said, there are many possible ways it could be done so will leave it from someone who knows  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 16:59:50 GMT
Route secure is used from the control room. No need for scotch and clip anymore. Could you explain how Route Secure works, please? Sorry, been away for a few days. On the TBTC system it is possible to set a "route secure" on the user front end PC in the control room (called the SMC). This sets and locks all the points on the route (for complex junctions you can have route 1, route 2 etc.) and then displays RSn, where n is the route number, to the train operator using an LED sign. Once authority is given over the radio the train operator can take the route (for engineering trains authority is sometimes given for multiple RSs in one go - once they have been set of course - and the train operator is required to slow and check the visual at each point). Hopefully that is clear enough. Let me know if it isn't. Edit to add that obviously there's an interaction with the vital interlocking kit to achieve this. |
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