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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 13:36:21 GMT
Drayton Park Station has an enormous football stadium beside it but the station has no service at the weekend. The Victoria Line runs from a platform at Highbury & Islington adjacent to the line that serves Drayton Park. Would it not be a good idea to divert SOME northbound Victoria Line trains at Highbury & Islington to serve/terminate at Drayton Park at times when the Emirates stadium is in use. Does this make sense or am I about to be shot down in flames?
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Post by littlebrute on Jun 20, 2014 14:13:59 GMT
Well for one, I'm pretty sure it's impossible. Or if it is possible it's incredibly complicated. So no, this will never happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 16:02:31 GMT
Its VERY impossible without huge expenditure! However, from December 2015 Drayton Park station will be open at weekends as trains to Moorgate will run all day Saturdays and Sundays (as well as to just after midnight on weekdays). And from spring 2018 the class 313s on this service will be replaced by brand new 6 car air-con articulated dual voltage EMUs. Take a look at the GoVia announcement made when they were awarded the new TSGN franchise a few weeks ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 17:37:58 GMT
Thank you Mr. Dunning. What do you think will happen to the displaced 313's? I rode one in the past week and found it a reasonably pleasant ride.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 18:20:09 GMT
Thank you Mr. Dunning. What do you think will happen to the displaced 313's? I rode one in the past week and found it a reasonably pleasant ride. Probably North West around Manchester or the "to be electrified" Welsh Valley Lines.
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Post by domh245 on Jun 20, 2014 19:18:57 GMT
There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about this - Some people are arguing for them to go to the scrap yard, some are saying they could go and supplement other PEP stock, such as the 315s which will start working the welsh valleys, or the 507/8s on merseyrail. Seeing as they will be coming up on 40 years when they get retired, they will probably end up in the scrap yard, but I suppose they may end up getting a refresh á la southern, and end up working around Brighton
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Post by melikepie on Jun 20, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
Merseyrail?
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Post by domh245 on Jun 20, 2014 20:07:01 GMT
Aye, the scouse version of the SSL I suppose - rincew1nd can fill us in more
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Post by snoggle on Jun 20, 2014 21:14:13 GMT
Thank you Mr. Dunning. What do you think will happen to the displaced 313's? I rode one in the past week and found it a reasonably pleasant ride. Probably North West around Manchester or the "to be electrified" Welsh Valley Lines. I'd be very surprised if they were cascaded simply because of their age and reliability. It is difficult and expensive to keep life expired trains in service. It can be done but it is a long way from being good practice. The only circumstances I can foresee where your prediction may prove right is if local politicians in the North West *demand* they are sent the trains in order to provide extra capacity on newly electrified routes. If you read the prospectus for the Northern Rail refreanchising there is a very strong emphasis on cost efficiency which suggests to be me that running old, expensive to keep running trains would not be a popular move with the DfT. I honestly can't see Welsh politicians asking for them given they want class 319s or to order brand new trains when the Welsh franchise is renewed. There will actually be a few designs knocking around and production lines waiting for orders so if the DfT / Welsh Assembly get themselves sorted out there might well be an opportunity to buy new at reasonable prices. If we end up with "feast or famine" with train orders then the cost of smallish batches of trains goes up and up. I can see the merit in a co-ordinated programme of EMU orders for LOROL, Merseyrail, Wales, Northern Rail, Transpennine plus trains to run on the Electric Spine services. Whether that actually happens is down to lots of people having a big outbreak of common sense!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 20, 2014 22:43:02 GMT
The 313s would not be popular if they moved to Wales or the North - apart from anything else, outside London and Merseyside, and a handful of 314s in Scotland, I think all trains now have toilets. The 313s are now nearly forty years old: older than the D stock.
Looking on CartoMetro at the layout of the tunnels at Finsbury Park and High & I, it seems that even if the old connections could be reopened, and electrified and signalled to Vic or Picc standards, trains could not be run via or to Drayton Park, At Finsbury Park, the original NCL terminal platforms are now the southbound Picc and Vic platforms, So although you might in theory reinstate a link from the sb Vic to the southbound at Drayton Park, northbound trains from Drayton Park would end up on the sb POicadilly Line! Reinstating the connections at H&I would connect the sb NCL to the northbound Vic - also not a good plan
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 20, 2014 22:55:10 GMT
MerseyRail are already seeking to establish a specification for new-builds to replace their 507/508 fleet. Recently a ROSCo brought some of the superfluous 508s up to Warrington from the south with an anticipation that MerseyRail might be interested - they weren't.
We'll probably end up with them though; so the politicians of the south can boast about "investment in the rail network of the north" without actually investing any real money.
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Post by roythebus on Jun 21, 2014 8:13:17 GMT
I worked on the 313s when they were new at kings Cross. I've ridden on a couple recently from Portsmouth to Brighton, not an experience I'd like to repeat in a hurry, but then with a return fare of £23 from Appledore to Portmouth mustn't grumble! My son is in charge of the "heritage" fleet on the Southern and he's always cursing the old fleet of 313s and 442s.
To answer the OP, it is not physically possible for the Vic line to run to Drayton Park, there's no direct connection between the 2 lines!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2014 15:59:52 GMT
MerseyRail are already scoping out their new rolling stock, and seem quite keen on class 378 or similar. They will probably procure them as 6 car air-con articulated units with the possibility of dual voltage as further extensions to the network will be AC overhead. The preference seems to be for a seating arrangement akin to the LU S8 stock. What will happen to the 313s is a good question. The original Business Case (as approved by the Treasury) for the Welsh Valleys was predicated on a cascade of refurbished 313s. However, that is now in doubt, not least because the Welsh Government feels insulted that it will be given 41+ year old rolling stock. The 315s are also in play, albeit reduced to 3 cars. However, they are also not far off their 40th birthdays!
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Post by crusty54 on Jun 21, 2014 18:14:55 GMT
Drayton Park station is not really big enough to handle football traffic.
I think it will close when there is a game even when trains are running evenings and on Saturdays.
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Post by Tom on Jun 22, 2014 12:15:59 GMT
Why divert? Drayton Park is directly above the Victoria Line.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 13:43:09 GMT
Speaking as a Civil Engineer the cost of building a station on the existing Vic Line alignment at or about Drayton Park and then incorporating it into what would be a completely rebuilt Drayton Park station would be - a heck of a lot of money! In terms of business case and priority you would probably not see it for at least 20 years! If ever!
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Post by superteacher on Jun 22, 2014 15:03:08 GMT
Can't see that happening. The benefits are far outweighed by the cost.
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Post by crusty54 on Jun 22, 2014 15:08:15 GMT
The Victoria line passes under the other end of the stadium. Just round the corner from Arsenal station.
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Post by roythebus on Jun 22, 2014 16:50:47 GMT
An the cost of adding a tube station while the Vic is running is likely to be £xxxxxxxm for use on odd Saturdays and Sundays in the winter. Not a very good business case.
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 22, 2014 17:06:48 GMT
An the cost of adding a tube station while the Vic is running is likely to be £xxxxxxxm for use on odd Saturdays and Sundays in the winter. Not a very good business case. When Arsenal moved to the Emirates, wasn't there talk of upgrading Holloway Road tube station as part of the project?
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Post by Tom on Jun 24, 2014 15:39:54 GMT
I quite agree with all of you on the Cost/Benefit issue; I'd not want to spend money on it either! I was merely observing that it would not be necessary to dig tunnels (or unblock old ones) at Highbury when the line actually goes where you want already!
AIUI Drayton Park was never a massive traffic generator even when Arsenal were playing at home, due to the choice of destinations served from there. Certainly when I travelled to college in the area I used it purely as a novelty; it was much easier to go to Holloway Road!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 25, 2014 14:02:51 GMT
MerseyRail are already scoping out their new rolling stock, and seem quite keen on class 378 or similar. They will probably procure them as 6 car air-con articulated units with the possibility of dual voltage as further extensions to the network will be AC overhead. They would not be very similar to Class 378s then. The Elecrostar family (Class 357/75/76/77/78/79/87), which cannot, as I understand it, operate as more than 5-car units (a six-car train would would have to be 2x3) and are not articulated. (As for the GN line, much as I would like to have seen Gresley quad-arts and quint-arts on that line, I was born too late, and it is unlikely they will return). Now the bendybuses have gone, the only true artics in London are operated by Tramlink and Eurostar.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 25, 2014 14:42:55 GMT
Now the bendybuses have gone, the only true artics in London are operated by Tramlink and Eurostar. And the DLR, whose trains are formed of 2 or 3 articulated cars.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 25, 2014 15:51:29 GMT
Now the bendybuses have gone, the only true artics in London are operated by Tramlink and Eurostar. And the DLR, whose trains are formed of 2 or 3 articulated cars. Oh yes, of course. And I should have said passenger-carrying, since many lorries are articulated.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 21:13:14 GMT
When Arsenal moved to the Emirates, wasn't there talk of upgrading Holloway Road tube station as part of the project? Yes, as part of the planning permission for the new stadium Arsenal agreed to spend several million on upgrading the station to cope with the additional traffic the station would be receiving because of the new stadiums location. I'm not entirely sure what the renovations were going to involve, but in the end I think that the whole thing was going to cost too much and was abandoned. The station is exit only and eastbound trains don't stop on match days, continuing to Arsenal station and letting everyone off there instead.
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