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Post by roboverground on Jun 18, 2014 9:10:30 GMT
Interesting news that the fleet of 14 Diesel Hydraulic Schoma locos (1996 vintage) are to be converted from diesel hydraulic power to battery and traction current power and will run in pairs. Traction power conversion to be carried out by Clayton Equipment Ltd
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 18, 2014 13:14:03 GMT
Very interesting....
I wonder why the change?
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Post by phillw48 on Jun 18, 2014 15:34:19 GMT
Probably problems with bringing them up to current emission standards. Surprising though as I would have thought it cheaper to to build new.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 16:20:02 GMT
Very interesting.... I wonder why the change? I wonder why the charge?  |
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 19, 2014 17:05:49 GMT
HI it is true they dont meet the current emission standards for the tunnels FISH7373
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 17:26:33 GMT
HI it is true they dont meet the current emission standards for the tunnels FISH7373 Sorry that's cods! |
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 19, 2014 18:19:06 GMT
HI so why is it cods have you the answer xercesfobe FISH7373
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Post by br7mt on Jun 19, 2014 19:34:04 GMT
More locos to cover for Battery Locos being out for upgrading, 750V mods and fitting of SSR signalling.
Tunnel operation, specifically static with the engine idling, is the primary problem.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 19, 2014 19:35:51 GMT
I thought diesels that operated in tunnels had to have exhaust scrubbers to prevent emissions. Don't these vehicles have them?
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Post by phillw48 on Jun 19, 2014 21:21:51 GMT
I thought diesels that operated in tunnels had to have exhaust scrubbers to prevent emissions. Don't these vehicles have them? They still produce emissions, the scrubbers cannot reduce the emissions to zero. Apart from the emissions there could be several other reasons such as costs, compatibility or changes in legislation. Apart from anything else diesel engines are at their most efficient when they are hot, even more so than a petrol engine and it might be the heat produced that is the problem, particularly in a tube tunnel. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 19, 2014 21:31:03 GMT
I thought diesels that operated in tunnels had to have exhaust scrubbers to prevent emissions. Don't these vehicles have them? They still produce emissions, the scrubbers cannot reduce the emissions to zero. Apart from the emissions there could be several other reasons such as costs, compatibility or changes in legislation. Apart from anything else diesel engines are at their most efficient when they are hot, even more so than a petrol engine and it might be the heat produced that is the problem, particularly in a tube tunnel. Cheers for explaining Phil!  |
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Post by phillw48 on Jun 19, 2014 21:35:56 GMT
Are they diesel electric not diesel hydraulic? Schoma produces both types. If they are diesel electric the conversion to battery power would not be too difficult.
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Post by fish7373 on Jun 19, 2014 22:00:47 GMT
HI
they are going to be diesel electric fitted with traction motors and shoe gear the same as the AIT train FISH7373
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Post by br7mt on Jun 20, 2014 12:59:33 GMT
Diesel engine with hydraulic gearbox for slow speed control. Traction motors, shoegear, batteries, resistor grids etc need to be fitted and anything that was fed off the diesel engine e.g. compressor and cab heating, needs to be replaced as well.
First two locos are with Claytons now for prototype conversion.
Regards,
Dan
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jun 20, 2014 12:59:35 GMT
The last time they tried to build new battery locos(1985)it didn't turn out well.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jun 27, 2014 12:37:49 GMT
Are they still named?They were named after girls working in Carillon's offices during the building of JLE.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jun 27, 2014 15:21:26 GMT
If they are to run in pairs does this mean that each one will carry different equipment?
Sounds like quite a complex job. Are they the best vehicles to start with, even?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 16:11:16 GMT
Are they still named?They were named after girls working in Carillon's offices during the building of JLE. They still carry the names. |
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 2, 2014 15:43:10 GMT
HI
From the OTM magarzine fourteen schoma diesel locomotives obtained in the 1990s for shunting and haulage but under-used due to their emission levels are being converted to traction / battery power only. PS the diesel engines are being removed. FISH7373
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 16:03:46 GMT
HI From the OTM magarzine fourteen schoma diesel locomotives obtained in the 1990s for shunting and haulage but under-used due to their emission levels are being converted to traction / battery power only. PS the diesel engines are being removed. FISH7373 There is also a full four page spread in this months 'RAIL' titled 'Refreshing the Tube's forgotten fleet'. Its a very interesting read and does mention the schoma overhaul as well as talk of brand new loco's and wagons. |
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Post by phillw48 on Jul 2, 2014 16:31:09 GMT
If they are to run in pairs does this mean that each one will carry different equipment? Sounds like quite a complex job. Are they the best vehicles to start with, even? That was my thought on the matter. It would be a complete rebuild as they are diesel hydraulic, if they were diesel electric it would be a simple matter of replacing the engine with a battery pack. |
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 2, 2014 16:45:53 GMT
If they are to run in pairs does this mean that each one will carry different equipment? Sounds like quite a complex job. Are they the best vehicles to start with, even? That was my thought on the matter. It would be a complete rebuild as they are diesel hydraulic, if they were diesel electric it would be a simple matter of replacing the engine with a battery pack. Yes a complete rebuild no diesel engine just batterys and traction motors FISH7373 |
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Post by miff on Jul 2, 2014 18:13:46 GMT
If they are to run in pairs does this mean that each one will carry different equipment? I don't know about the Schomas but LUL locomotives always seem to run in pairs for operational convenience, not because they carry different equipment. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 18:26:58 GMT
If they are to run in pairs does this mean that each one will carry different equipment? I don't know about the Schomas but LUL locomotives always seem to run in pairs for operational convenience, not because they carry different equipment. It tends to be the case of 'two is one and one is none'. It sometimes also has to the do with the number of compressors being carried. |
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 2, 2014 19:53:24 GMT
I don't know about the Schomas but LUL locomotives always seem to run in pairs for operational convenience, not because they carry different equipment. It tends to be the case of 'two is one and one is none'. It sometimes also has to the do with the number of compressors being carried. HI It is not true about number of compressors on a battery loco because they have two compressors to a loco, and don't forget no run rounds on the line and in a possession they have to go back and forwards to unload. and I have read a report on that battery locos are at there limit on pulling heavy trains. FISH7373
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Post by domh245 on Jul 2, 2014 20:08:53 GMT
Will these be more powerful then than the existing battery locos. I suppose if they use some nice modern AC induction motors they may well be better than the existing models, but equally this could be a "cheap and cheerful" job...
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Post by phillw48 on Jul 2, 2014 20:51:17 GMT
The fact that they only have one cab could be the reason for operating them in pairs, with the cabs 'outward'.
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 2, 2014 23:39:51 GMT
The fact that they only have one cab could be the reason for operating them in pairs, with the cabs 'outward'. Not always operate them in pairs with the cabs outward they do run them one loco ether end of engineers train I have seen this. FISH7373 |
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Post by miff on Jul 3, 2014 8:49:03 GMT
I guess it is not clear whether they are intended to run as permanently coupled pairs - in which case it is likely that a Schoma hauled train would normally have four of them. I.e. one pair at each end of the train - is that the idea?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 20:54:26 GMT
Remember battery locos are required to sometimes shunt by themselves, and sometimes decouple on site during engineering hours. And from my knowledge it is true that the battery locos are nearing the limit when it comes to loads. I have seen a battery loco fail to pull another battery loco and tamper before so had to be assisted by the other battery loco. It would be interesting to see how they plan to run the schoma's. It tends to be the case of 'two is one and one is none'. It sometimes also has to the do with the number of compressors being carried. HI It is not true about number of compressors on a battery loco because they have two compressors to a loco, and don't forget no run rounds on the line and in a possession they have to go back and forwards to unload. and I have read a report on that battery locos are at there limit on pulling heavy trains. FISH7373
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