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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 19:45:10 GMT
A couple of years ago (I'm new here and was just reminded of it) I got on an eastbound Piccadilly line train at Holborn. Due to a problem on the line, it was decided that this train would tip out at Russell Square. The necessary was duly done and that's what happened, although it didn't worry me as that was my stop anyway! I was just wondering in general, though, why this would be done. The crossover at King's Cross is facing in the other direction, if you get my meaning, so that a train tipped out at Russell Square on the east will end up at King's Cross eastbound anyway. Presumably the train headed back west at King's Cross using that very same crossover. So why not carry on to King's Cross in service, where you'll end up anyway, and carry out the move as usual.
It seems plausible that this might have been done to prevent a train load of people arriving at King's Cross and flooding onto the busy King's Cross platform. The problem is, of course, that instead they all flooded pokey little Russell Square's platform and then had to try and pile on the next one through Russell Square (for Cockfosters). Might it not have been preferable to regulate the train at Russell Square until the platform at King's Cross had started to clear from the last trainload through (although, admittedly, in that time more people would arrive wanting to go east)? Then the train could have simply carried on to King's Cross. It wouldn't even have needed to tip out there, would it? I assume it could have gone back west under colour light signals in service?
Also, presumably when the one that tipped out at Russell Square arrived at King's Cross it would have arrived on the eastbound and would then have gone west wrong road. Would this not also have caused confusion and carnage, unless it stayed out of service and re-entered service at Russell Square, doing the whole trip Russell - King's X - Russell empty?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 5, 2014 20:08:00 GMT
I suspect your last bit captures it. The train will have arrived empty at King's Cross, doors stay shut, then departed. The alternative is it arrives, starts to tip people out, new people arrive on the platform and try to board, it gets explained again, yadda yadda.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 20:09:55 GMT
Fair enough, thanks Is that usual practise do you know?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 21:12:03 GMT
Was this early on a Sunday morning, when the first handful of Picc trains reverse east o west at King's Cross, or maybe when the line was suspended east of King's Cross for engineering work?
I ask that because I recall an incident a few years back when trains were reversing east to west at King's Cross (because of engineering work), there was a fire alarm activated at King's Cross LU station and the station had to close. In this instance, trains had to be detrained at Russell Square, ran empty to King's Cross and then empty back to entrain at Russell Square. This was documented in a previous issue of Underground News but I can't put a date on it. (Other services - SSL, Nthn and Vic were able to non-stop).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 21:31:43 GMT
Hmmm I wish I could tell you, it definitely wasn't early Sunday morning, it was late morning/early afternoon and I think it was a weekday. It wasn't engineering work either, it was a response to some sort of problem with the service or another. The next train ran through to Cockfosters, ours was the only one to be turned back immediately at least, more may of course have been short-tripped later. Or at least, that's all I know, I left the station immediately, but there's every chance the problem quickly turned out to be a lot worse and more trains were turned back.
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 5, 2014 21:39:46 GMT
Russell Square is a much quieter station, so easier to cope with a trainload of people tipped out, and not so many arriving all the time to confuse the issue. If necessary, you could even stop the lifts to make sure no-one else comes down until it's sorted.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 21:44:45 GMT
Oh I agree, the problem that I see is that most of them simply piled on the next train(s) through and I would have thought many of them would have been heading to King's X as their final destination anyway, so I'm not sure whether it would really have made that much of a difference in the long run. But then, y'know, I asked the question precisely to see if that was true and I'm sure that the staff in Earl's Court (it is Earl's Court isn't it?) had a much better view and have a much better idea about these things than me! I just wonder how great an effect it will have had. Still, as I say, made no difference to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 23:32:13 GMT
Wondering if it was to do with no staff member at Kings Cross able to assist on platform - we're meant to have a staff member at car 6 to give us the right/stop customers boarding car 6 as part of it is trackside/beyond barrier when reversing East to West
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Post by railtechnician on May 6, 2014 7:29:28 GMT
A more obvious thought it that the train was somehow defective. It may then not have reversed at Kings Cross at all, simply non-stopping all the way to Wood Green, Arnos Grove or Oakwood to run into the depot there or reverse to Northfields later in the day so as not to unnecessarily obstruct following traffic. Such events are not unknown and the driver is not compelled to tell the passengers the detailed reason for tipping out, only that circumstances require it.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 16:43:53 GMT
A more obvious thought it that the train was somehow defective. It may then not have reversed at Kings Cross at all, simply non-stopping all the way to Wood Green, Arnos Grove or Oakwood to run into the depot there or reverse to Northfields later in the day so as not to unnecessarily obstruct following traffic. Such events are not unknown and the driver is not compelled to tell the passengers the detailed reason for tipping out, only that circumstances require it. That seems very plausible. I seem to remember that he said it was something to do with some delays, but you know it was so long ago I could be wrong and it could easily simply have been taken out of service. If only I'd been a member two years ago I probably could've told you more lol. I seem to remember being intrigued that it had Russell Square up as its destination, although maybe that's just a figment of my imagination, but that was one of the things that made me think it might be a regular-ish occurrence, or at least part of procedure and would be worth asking about.
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Post by domh245 on May 6, 2014 18:11:34 GMT
I think that the 73 stock is capable of displaying any station on the line on the front (as with all(?) digital tube displays) whereas in the days of blinds, they would have limited space to display their destinations, and so would usually be limited to stations where a cross-over move could be carried out.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 18:28:11 GMT
I thought the 73TS did use blinds? You know I don't think the 92TS can display any destination? I'm pretty sure Sonia doesn't know all the words either. But then again, there's always something to surprise me! Does anybody know more?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 6, 2014 20:49:51 GMT
I think that the 73 stock is capable of displaying any station on the line on the front (as with all(?) digital tube displays D Stock can display any District Line station (except Notting Hill, Bayswater, Paddington, Edgware Rd) as a destination, S Stock can only display stations with reversing facilities.
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Post by domh245 on May 6, 2014 21:16:58 GMT
Does that include places such as Wimbledon park and east Putney, where there are crossovers, but they aren't used very often? Or is it just the 'mainstream' reversing points
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on May 6, 2014 22:16:12 GMT
I saw a 92 stock in the depot with Ongar on the front but I have no clue how to get it myself. (Not that I would)
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 22:46:53 GMT
I saw a 92 stock in the depot with Ongar on the front but I have no clue how to get it myself. (Not that I would) Maybe there's a shunter who's a big fan of the Epping Ongar Railway and is optimistic about its future I saw one in Woodford bay road with Waterloo on the front as I was arriving on the east, but by the time my eastbound had left and I could get a clear view of the back of it it had changed to its true destination. Presumably either an error quickly corrected, or does one have to cycle through options on the 92s?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 21:20:17 GMT
I think that the 73 stock is capable of displaying any station on the line on the front (as with all(?) digital tube displays) whereas in the days of blinds, they would have limited space to display their destinations, and so would usually be limited to stations where a cross-over move could be carried out. According to a note at the bottom of this page I think you were right. Well what do you know, perhaps the majority just aren't listed?
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2014 23:28:11 GMT
S, 92, 95, 96 and 09 stock can only display certain stations I.e. the ones that have been programmed into it.
73 and D stock can display any destination.
C and 72 stock have blinds which only contain certain destinations.
interestingly, the last set of blinds on the 67 stock had every station on the line.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 23:34:22 GMT
S, 92, 95, 96 and 09 stock can only display certain stations I.e. the ones that have been programmed into it. 73 and D stock can display any destination. C and 72 stock have blinds which only contain certain destinations. interestingly, the last set of blinds on the 67 stock had every station on the line. Fair enough, thanks for the clarification That's what I had thought, but I understood myself to have been corrected! I think a slightly odd decision, it would seem to me to be useful to have the option, for example if a train needs to go out of service at the next station for some reason. Also I imagine it would have been handy when they were doing TBTC testing on the Northern. I remember a thread on here about the headache caused by terminating at Angel.
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