Antje
侵略! S系, でゲソ! The Tube comes from the bottom of London!
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Post by Antje on Sept 7, 2014 1:19:38 GMT
I should clarify that the platform staff and the police officer that I sought help from at Victoria was very helpful. The platform staff brought me tea, pasty and sympathy and helped my carer to get to the station to take me safely home, particularly for how busy the station is as the afternoon peak loomed over us. Prior to the incident the D78 Stock project was progressing so well that I could get 10 cars online in one day.
However, it beggars belief that such threatening or rude and provocative attitude from the two staff at West Kensington and Hammersmith, respectively, left me unwilling to go home by tube on that day: we were lucky that the way home was direct via the route 38 bus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 1:27:52 GMT
Prior to the incident the D78 Stock project was progressing so well that I could get 10 cars online in one day. Could we see them?  |
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Antje
侵略! S系, でゲソ! The Tube comes from the bottom of London!
Posts: 603
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Post by Antje on Sept 7, 2014 1:34:04 GMT
This is the work in progress: London Underground D78 Stock. This is not about quantity, but an attempt at immortalising every motor car that has served the website's namesake. |
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 7, 2014 1:51:28 GMT
This is the work in progress: London Underground D78 Stock. This is not about quantity, but an attempt at immortalising every motor car that has served the website's namesake. All I can say, from a new member's point of view, is to keep up the good work! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 1:55:20 GMT
This is the work in progress: London Underground D78 Stock. This is not about quantity, but an attempt at immortalising every motor car that has served the website's namesake. Oh! I didn't know  ??sity was you (nice name, by the way) - yours really is a great account. Anyway, those are some lovely D stock photos there, thanks for the link |
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Post by londonstuff on Sept 7, 2014 8:08:32 GMT
I hope you're feeling better today and keep feeling able to do what you want to do, it's not you that's done anything wrong. Could you try taking the Conditions of Carriage with you in future to politely explain that you're abiding by the T&Cs?
I had a fairly nasty experience at Heathrow T5 a few years ago - I think technically it's private land so I think with that they're technically okay to ask you not to photograph but the aggressive nature of the security guard (typical meathead) was outrageous: show me your passport, etc. I won't put here what the answer to that was but I could see it would be terrifying for someone more easily intimidated.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 7, 2014 11:43:01 GMT
Sorry to hear about this.
Glad you were restrained enough not to ask either of them politely why their 'How to be a human being' training course had apparently been cut short. 
That photography of yours tells a story. The more you look at it, the more you see.
You should seriously think, when the record is complete, of getting them issued, as a limited edition photographic print, or probably a set of them, as I see you are already on page 2. There might be quite a few people seriously interested in this, because it's both art and a historical archive in one hit, and how many things can you say that about?
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Post by southfieldschris on Sept 7, 2014 15:07:44 GMT
Those are very fine photographs. I hope you find your way down the Wimbledon Branch a bit more before the project ends; I'd love to see a picture or two of the D stock in their last months at, say, Southfields... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 15:12:06 GMT
I'd love to see a picture or two of the D stock in their last months at, say, Southfields... Why Southfields in particular Southfieldschris?  |
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Post by southfieldschris on Sept 7, 2014 15:20:13 GMT
I'd love to see a picture or two of the D stock in their last months at, say, Southfields... Why Southfields in particular Southfieldschris?
Oh, no reason.....
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Post by Tomcakes on Sept 7, 2014 16:59:03 GMT
I had a fairly nasty experience at Heathrow T5 a few years ago - I think technically it's private land so I think with that they're technically okay to ask you not to photograph but the aggressive nature of the security guard (typical meathead) was outrageous: show me your passport, etc. I won't put here what the answer to that was but I could see it would be terrifying for someone more easily intimidated. Of course, although TfL is a public body, their network remains private land as far as I'm aware - perhaps excluding certain subways etc part of top stations over which a public right of access may exist (I'm thinking of various New Works era schemes where as part of the station being constructed, the road layout was modified to remove pedestrian crossings but provide subways instead). It may be that Heathrow is actually the property of BAA and they use private security guards (no intelligence needed to obtain an SIA license). |
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Post by MoreToJack on Sept 7, 2014 18:32:51 GMT
Of course, although TfL is a public body, their network remains private land as far as I'm aware - perhaps excluding certain subways etc part of top stations over which a public right of access may exist (I'm thinking of various New Works era schemes where as part of the station being constructed, the road layout was modified to remove pedestrian crossings but provide subways instead). It may be that Heathrow is actually the property of BAA and they use private security guards (no intelligence needed to obtain an SIA license). Indeed - I think I'm right in saying that all of the T5 extension is owned by BAA rather than TfL, so that could be some of the reason behind that example? |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 7, 2014 18:38:49 GMT
You might think that by now there was some consistency of practice by LU staff about photography. I've just about given up any photography on LU. I'd like to snap the ticket offices before they all close down but I can see myself running into all sorts of nonsense [1] that I simply don't have the patience for these days. No one should be left in a state of distress simply from being spoken to. Some staff (not just LU) can be unduly intimidating even if you know how to "handle" yourself properly. I would complain about the treatment that was meted out but that's just me. T5 is probably a triple problem place - not owned by LU but by HAL, not run by LU but by HAL, it's part of the airport and we've just had the security level increased which will put staff on even more of a state of tension than normal. [1] you can't photograph people, you can't photograph staff, you're planning a robbery [2], you're not allowed to take a photo in a station, it's a breach of someone's human rights etc etc etc. [2] I was accused of doing this by a police office in Southgate because I took a bus photo that had a bank in the background. Do the police really believe thieves do a recce with a huge Canon DSLR in their hand? I mean really?   That was a fun discussion with the police officer and getting her to drive away without any of my details. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 18:46:09 GMT
For those who've not read it (don't know if this has already been linked to), there is really good information and advice on the main site here, which I assume is pretty much up to date. |
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 7, 2014 18:52:58 GMT
Don't forget my earlier comment about needing the permission of the person in the picture when the picture was a selfie.
Am I permitted to authorise myself to take my own picture verbally or must I write a letter to myself giving permission to take my own picture?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 18:57:25 GMT
Don't forget my earlier comment about needing the permission of the person in the picture when the picture was a selfie. Am I permitted to authorise myself to take my own picture verbally or must I write a letter to myself giving permission to take my own picture? I think you should always have it in writing. You don't want to end up in the difficult position where you've taken yourself to court and you haven't got any evidence to prove that you gave yourself permission to take a picture of yourself with which to defend yourself against yourself. If you know what I mean  |
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 7, 2014 21:10:43 GMT
Don't forget my earlier comment about needing the permission of the person in the picture when the picture was a selfie. Am I permitted to authorise myself to take my own picture verbally or must I write a letter to myself giving permission to take my own picture? I think you should always have it in writing. You don't want to end up in the difficult position where you've taken yourself to court and you haven't got any evidence to prove that you gave yourself permission to take a picture of yourself with which to defend yourself against yourself. If you know what I mean Indeed... I will heed your advice, tut, to have written permission from myself |
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Antje
侵略! S系, でゲソ! The Tube comes from the bottom of London!
Posts: 603
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Post by Antje on Sept 8, 2014 10:51:11 GMT
I would personally avoid T5 because the sign specifically says so, but this is not quite relevant to the "West-Kengate" of last week.
I am going to try again today at a different location, but if it happens again, remember that I have the 'Leave country' key as much as District Dave having the 'Delete' key and Catalonia/Scotland having the 'Independence' key
The London Underground is clearly anything but a military installation.
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Antje
侵略! S系, でゲソ! The Tube comes from the bottom of London!
Posts: 603
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Post by Antje on Sept 8, 2014 15:46:40 GMT
@londonstuff, It happened again at Becontree and your advice about "stand your ground" isn't working. I have no idea about the intolerance of something that's totally fine.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2014 18:47:06 GMT
@londonstuff, It happened again at Becontree and your advice about "stand your ground" isn't working. I have no idea about the intolerance of something that's totally fine. It is worth considering that staff will be extra alert to anything "unusual" or "odd" or anyone hanging around because of the increased security level imposed by the Government recently. They are going to place security compliance above allowing people to take snaps. It may calm down in time but I suspect that is why you are encountering problems. I'd be tempted to email the BTP to ask for their advice about photography on LU at the present time. I say this because I used to be involved with these sorts of issues. I once related an encounter, with TfL bus staff when photographing, to the LU security manager and senior BTP officer. They found the reaction laughable and said there was no great issue with photography on LU / transport network despite the security situation. However I must stress that was then and advice / policy *may* have changed. Given the BTP have issued advice on ralway photography before they are in a good position to say if it has been changed. Alternatively they have a local liaison meeting for the District line BTP team in about a week - details |
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 8, 2014 19:13:19 GMT
I do know the terror level is at the highest level. When I went to London the other week I was given a wide berth because of the beard I have and the rucksack on my back - based solely on looks I was thought to be up to no good
Given the fact there are around 200 ISIS members in the country, its possible that they know something that we don't with regards to a possible threat to the tube network. Perhaps things will be calmer in a few days
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Post by peterc on Sept 8, 2014 20:20:17 GMT
Considering that there were armed police at London Bridge yesterday I would imagine that staff are twitchy. On the other had I would have thought that the presence of rail enthusiasts watching things would be beneficial.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 8, 2014 20:36:03 GMT
The problem might be the date on Thursday, come to think of it?
Especially for security people.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 8, 2014 21:07:16 GMT
Can I please draw everyone's attention to this page written by District Dave regarding photography on the UndergrounD.
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 8, 2014 22:34:42 GMT
I have read that, but does the TFL website itself not permit "ad hoc" pictures to be taken without question such as taking a family member's picture sat under a roundel? As I interpret it, if I was to wait for a High Street Kensington to Olympia service and I spotted a train coming through with Her Majesty the Queen at the controls, this would count as an ad hoc picture and be alright as it was a spur of a moment thing.
Of course, I do not believe the Monarch is rated for D stock
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 22:41:10 GMT
Of course, I do not believe the Monarch is rated for D stock Maybe it's like on the road? I've heard she doesn't need a driving license, but can drive a car |
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 8, 2014 23:12:19 GMT
Of course, I do not believe the Monarch is rated for D stock Maybe it's like on the road? I've heard she doesn't need a driving license, but can drive a car As the courts are the possession of the Queen, she can't be done for not having a licence. As it happens, though, she does hold a licence since the war when she drove a trucks and an ambulance during WW2 and one was issued in her name at that point according to the law. According to the DVLA, their records indicate she did hold one until she turned 70 at which point she would have needed a retest and a new one issued. However, as the monarch and ruler of this country she may certify herself as no court in the land may try her... Prince Charles would not require one as he holds a licence - Princess Anne holds a Class 2 HGV licence! Incidentally, this came to a head a few years ago when somebody gave the Queen a plant that was made up of cannabis plant leaves. This sparked a debate as to weather or not the Queen could have been done for Possession. Rather fascinating to read what the Queen can do that we can not |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 21:31:40 GMT
Maybe it's like on the road? I've heard she doesn't need a driving license, but can drive a car As the courts are the possession of the Queen, she can't be done for not having a licence. As it happens, though, she does hold a licence since the war when she drove a trucks and an ambulance during WW2 and one was issued in her name at that point according to the law. According to the DVLA, their records indicate she did hold one until she turned 70 at which point she would have needed a retest and a new one issued. However, as the monarch and ruler of this country she may certify herself as no court in the land may try her... Prince Charles would not require one as he holds a licence - Princess Anne holds a Class 2 HGV licence! Incidentally, this came to a head a few years ago when somebody gave the Queen a plant that was made up of cannabis plant leaves. This sparked a debate as to weather or not the Queen could have been done for Possession. Rather fascinating to read what the Queen can do that we can not
'Indefatigable' this is a serious thread about the problems encountered by photographers on LU. War service and vocational licences of Royalty are perhaps best discussed in the 'on diversion' or 'chat' boards.
Let's get back on topic. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 23:54:39 GMT
I think some people are getting a little ridiculous over pictures and security.
While everyone not just staff should be security aware I will give you an example of an incident.
A man inside a major London terminal station is filming the ticket barriers. He is about 30metres away from them. No staff or police notice him until it is pointed out. The individual at this point calmly puts the camera away and walks out of the station.Cause for concern?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 11, 2014 7:58:44 GMT
Not necessarily.
When a member of staff tells me that I can't photograph their station I will almost always just move on to the next one. I'm almost always just photographing for the quiz, and I know of someone who films every day scenes to produce nostalgia films down the line.
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??sity was you (nice name, by the way) - yours really is a great account.
That was a fun discussion with the police officer and getting her to drive away without any of my details.
