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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 12:32:04 GMT
In "The Railway Magazine" for April 2013, in addition to mentioning the lengthening of the existing trains, there is also a small piece (separately) suggesting that stored class 313s will be modified to run on LO in four-car formation - i.e. LO livery and longitudinal seating. On the basis that nothing has been announced in the press to that effect, makes me wonder if, being the April issue .......
Can you imagine 313s back on LO ?
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 10, 2013 12:39:21 GMT
I'd love that! It was also discussed that spare 508s could be used. Perhaps spare trailers from stored 508s could be used to make up 4 car trains?
I think that these 313s could be used most effectively on the DC line. Perhaps a mixture of seating could be used to allow long distance passengers from Hatch End etc to have a sit down.
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Post by melikepie on Mar 10, 2013 12:43:06 GMT
Move em to GN
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Post by snoggle on Mar 10, 2013 14:01:29 GMT
In "The Railway Magazine" for April 2013, in addition to mentioning the lengthening of the existing trains, there is also a small piece (separately) suggesting that stored class 313s will be modified to run on LO in four-car formation - i.e. LO livery and longitudinal seating. On the basis that nothing has been announced in the press to that effect, makes me wonder if, being the April issue ....... Can you imagine 313s back on LO ? I think this is the "April effect". If there was even a remote possibility of using 313s and it was viable then it would have been in the recent TfL approval papers. There was no hint of old trains returning when various TfL people sat in front of the London Assembly Transport Committee this week. The emphasis was very much on the longer trains plus GOBLIN electrification (progress or lack thereof). Personally I can't imagine them coming back to the existing Overground network. I could see more trains coming back to bolster Great Northern services - especially if the stopping services are devolved to TfL rather than given to East Coast which is the current suggestion from the DfT as part of the consultation on the wider Thameslink franchise.
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Post by stevo on Mar 10, 2013 14:23:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 14:49:31 GMT
That Southern interior spruce up picture is very nice, Stevo.
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Post by christopher125 on Mar 10, 2013 23:09:33 GMT
I can't see how that would make any sense, didn't the capacity upgrade specifically mention ordering extra units? The last thing TfL or LOROL would want is a small fleet of non-standard units approaching their 40th birthday. It sounds like the magazine are reporting of the suggestions BGOLUG have been making for operating Barking-Gospel Oak - there's some details of their 'alternative electrification proposal' in their latest bulletinChris
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 23:36:11 GMT
April 1st anyone?
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Post by flippyff on Mar 20, 2013 22:29:31 GMT
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 20, 2013 22:49:30 GMT
Ohh, so we won't be getting any 313/508s back Can't read the article but will this mean extra cars to make 5 car trains or extra train (or both?)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 23:16:18 GMT
Ohh, so we won't be getting any 313/508s back Can't read the article but will this mean extra cars to make 5 car trains or extra train (or both?) To make 5 car trains
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 20, 2013 23:30:25 GMT
Thanks, I thought that would be the case.
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Post by Ben on Mar 21, 2013 10:30:20 GMT
And investigating the purchase of a couple of extra trains too, according to some sources.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 21, 2013 15:41:47 GMT
Would make sense.
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Post by d7666 on Apr 14, 2013 12:32:26 GMT
In "The Railway Magazine" for April 2013, in addition to mentioning the lengthening of the existing trains, there is also a small piece (separately) suggesting that stored class 313s will be modified to run on LO in four-car formation - i.e. LO livery and longitudinal seating. On the basis that nothing has been announced in the press to that effect, makes me wonder if, being the April issue ....... Can you imagine 313s back on LO ? April fool or not, there is a major flaw. There are no stored or spare 313s. All 313s are in use, all bar one is in passenger use, and the one that is not is the ATO test bed unit for Thameslink and Crossrail. However, there is a more recent and seemingly more robust suggestion that some 508s will be deployed on LOROL services because, so it is said, some, but not all, 378s have to go back to Derby to have the 5th car inserted, but others can be done in depot. The stories say 508s will cover this period, and the bulk of the rumours refer to the 508/3s. The logic would appear to be 508s on Euston services to release 378s to other LOROL work to release other 378s to Derby. Please note I am only collecting and repeating what seem to me to be reasonably sound reports from other forums, if some of this is wrong don't shoot me, I am but a relayer of messages, and fir sure there could be an element of 1 April at work confuzzling things along the way. -- Nick
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Post by andypurk on Apr 14, 2013 14:43:20 GMT
However, there is a more recent and seemingly more robust suggestion that some 508s will be deployed on LOROL services because, so it is said, some, but not all, 378s have to go back to Derby to have the 5th car inserted, but others can be done in depot. The stories say 508s will cover this period, and the bulk of the rumours refer to the 508/3s. The logic would appear to be 508s on Euston services to release 378s to other LOROL work to release other 378s to Derby. Of course, if TfL are also to order two extra class 378 units (an option being considered), then there would be some slack in the fleet for lengthening and no need for rebuilding class 508s. Can anyone recall how long the lengthening of the 3-car 378/0 to 4-car 378/2 took in 2010? Is there any reason why it couldn't be done at the weekend, when there is plenty of units stabled out of service (including at Camden), or would the commissioning runs take too long?
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Post by d7666 on Apr 14, 2013 19:05:04 GMT
The rumoured two extra units options have not been ordered yet though, whereas the 5th cars have.
I think you've mis-read me, the driving point behind the rumours is exactly that it is alleged a quantity of 378s can't be simply lengthen from 4 to 5 cars have to go to works for this, which implies modifications, which in turn implies it'll take some time.
-- Nick
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Post by andypurk on Apr 14, 2013 19:32:15 GMT
The rumoured two extra units options have not been ordered yet though, whereas the 5th cars have. Have the 5th car actually been ordered? The plans were only announced in February, for completion by December 2014. I have seen nothing to say that a contract has been awarded to Bombardier yet. No mis-reading at all, but building two extra units still seems a better option. Substantially rebuilding old class 508 stock with modern interiors (including reconfiguration to 4 car units) won't be cheap, even if the lease costs are low. Without knowing what work is needed on the 'problem' units, the question can't really be answered.
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 14, 2013 20:08:15 GMT
I actually think that 508s would be very suitable for the DC line. It is a longer distance run and is the least used compared with all the other LO services. I wonder if 6 car 508s could be used? (probably not required though)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2013 10:50:00 GMT
Many thanks for that - I (we) wait with baited breath!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 7:45:44 GMT
I actually think that 508s would be very suitable for the DC line. It is a longer distance run and is the least used compared with all the other LO services. I wonder if 6 car 508s could be used? (probably not required though) Given that the PEP based units have 4 x 110hp traction motors under each DM, the performance of 4-car 508s as built might be less than desirable these days. Also, the risk of failure of old electricals would be higher. My money would be on a couple of trains made up of DM-DM + DM-T-DM for the WJ DC locals. That would give enough reliability and performance as a stop-gap measure. Noting the amount of (perhaps gratuitous) internal refitting done by so many TOCs on their inherited fleets, tidying up 10 class 508 cars should be a trifling matter. These then could be used as pilot units for repowering such units with current AC equipment, to assess the costs vs benefits of such life extension. There should be no practical reason why the cars can't continue in service on second tier operations, where their basic configuration is not dissimilar to recent new builds. The primary differences would be door width, which due to dwell time considerations, would indicate use on routes where loadings and dwell times are not mission-critical. A seond is the suspension, which lacks the yaw damping needed for operations much faster than 75mph. The third is lack of air conditioning. This could be retro-fitted if desired, but at least the PEP design had opening windows, and increased ventilation flow should be included in life extension.
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Post by domh245 on May 7, 2013 13:08:45 GMT
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Post by grahamhewett on May 7, 2013 17:30:53 GMT
Presumably no new trains until extra paths can be found (a remote prospect, surely as the infrastructure/signalling works have yet to be planned). Longer is about as good as it gets, I fear.
GH
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Post by bicbasher on May 7, 2013 23:10:59 GMT
Considering the TfL statement says that the first 5 car services will start on the ELL, this may coincide with the speculated extra 2tph to Crystal Palace which would start from the Winter 2014 timetable.
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Post by christopher125 on May 8, 2013 14:49:15 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if a decision about extra units is waiting for a decision on GOBLIN electrification.
Chris
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Post by Chris M on May 8, 2013 14:59:39 GMT
If the Goblin is to be electrified, then it would make sense to order extra units for the NLL/ELL as part of that order rather than make two separate ones.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 8:15:00 GMT
Fencing, earth moving and ground preparation work is now well underway at the Silwood triangle. It will be interesting to see the site develop. Assessments are continuing as to whether some stations will need re-siting of signals. I believe that assessments on the NLL are with a view to any works carried out now accommodating 6 car wherever possible in the future.
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