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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 10:01:41 GMT
I've just had a read of the Victoria Line's fairly new WTT35. As far as I'm aware, this is the first LU timetable to have services above 30tph for a few decades, and can be downloaded below: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/145099/response/358322/attach/3/Vic%2035.pdfA few observations for those interested in timetables: - The 33tph service runs for slightly more than an hour in both peaks. - Trains are added and removed from service at Seven Sisters (as expected - no Kings X or Victoria starters during the peak). - The 33tph service is timetabled with the following pattern being repeated (at 1/4 minute resolution) - 1min45secs, 1min45secs, 2min. - This gives an average of 100secs frequency (32.7tph). - During the 33tph operation trains are timetabled to depart Brixton at exactly the same time a train is scheduled to arrive, however an extra 15secs run time is added SB from Stockwell. Interestingly, during the 30tph operation trains are timetabled to arrive 30secs before the next departure. I think I've already asked this in another thread with no reply, but I'd be interested to know how reliably the 33tph operation is working?
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Post by londonstuff on Feb 18, 2013 10:21:27 GMT
I also asked this and perhaps the lack of the Evening Standard piping on is an indicator of the fact that it's gone smoothly. I taken a few evening peak trains northbound in the last month or so and there seemed to be more stops between stations, understandably enough. No doubt they're still tweaking it and learning as they go. Even if it's not a huge amount quicker I'm not complaining at there being fewer people on every train. (And the forced air system seems to work rather well, too).
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cso
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Post by cso on Feb 18, 2013 22:51:14 GMT
I've been travelling on the Victoria Line most mornings, and apart from one day, it's been fairly reliable - and I don't think that day was related to the timetable!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 14:55:33 GMT
Hi all!
I have a few questions about the new WTT on the Victoria Line, which I hope one of the experts here may be able to answer.
1. When did this timetable actually start please? was it Monday 14/01/13? 2. At what time does the maximum 33TPH service begin and end in the evening peak please? I've had a brief look at the link to the timetable provided, but as I'm severely visually impaired, I find it very difficult to decipher. 3. How many of the 47 2009 stock trains are required to run this peak service?
Many thanks in advance for any help.
Best Wishes
Green Lion.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 10, 2013 15:55:23 GMT
The new timetable began on Sunday 20th January.
The 33tph service runs for an hour in each direction. For e ample, in the evening park, it is from 5pm until 6pm from Victoria northbound.
The timetable requires 39 trains for peak service. There will be a further upgrade in the future, which will see the 33h run for longer. This will require 43 trains.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 11, 2013 14:01:40 GMT
I've been travelling on the Victoria Line most mornings, and apart from one day, it's been fairly reliable - and I don't think that day was related to the timetable! And yet over the last week there have been delays and signal failures on most days. Any clues as to the cause(s)? Is it points and crossovers misbehaving again [1] or something else? [1] I had a visit to the new control centre before I left LU and was told these assets were the most troublesome. In fact Brixton's points failed during my visit so I saw how the controller and the system responded in terms of managing service recovery.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 8:05:45 GMT
Thanks for the helpful info Super Teacher; I must remember when I next manage to persuade one of my poor, unsuspecting friends to go 2009 stock hunting with me for my last 5 trains, that my best chances of getting them are between 17.00 and 18.00 on a weekday evening.
Cheers once again for your help.
Green Lion.
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 4, 2013 20:02:16 GMT
Just a few general observations as I've been up and down on the Vic loads during the last week or two. In short, I'm really impressed. - Train frequency is really good. I knew it had improved but I measured platform reoccupation time today, from when the back of the train passed me to when the front of the next did. One at ~10:45am this morning was 39 seconds, one in the evening, at ~6:45pm was 19.8 seconds. I doubt that's sustainable all the time but the timetable does seem to be working well. Maybe trains are a little slower than their max as there's so little gap between them but the upside of this is that carriages are much less packed. Great stuff! - Heat: it's not roasting any more - perhaps the regen braking and the forced air system (which also seems pretty good), along with the new fans they put in have worked. - DVAs - two trains I got on today were automatically announcing that there was a good service on the line. I wonder how this works and whether it's somehow tied into one of the TfL feeds or databases.. Although it seemed to take forever the benefits of the upgrade really do seem tangible. Any other thoughts or comments? EDIT: Mike Horne's interesting observations and analysis of the new timetable and the various arrangements that have to go with it are here. Rather interestingly at the end of the piece he speculates whether 34tph might just be possible.
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cso
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Post by cso on Apr 4, 2013 20:44:37 GMT
- Train frequency is really good. I knew it had improved but I measured platform reoccupation time today, from when the back of the train passed me to when the front of the next did. One at ~10:45am this morning was 39 seconds, one in the evening, at ~6:45pm was 19.8 seconds. I doubt that's sustainable all the time but the timetable does seem to be working well. Maybe trains are a little slower than their max as there's so little gap between them but the upside of this is that carriages are much less packed. Great stuff! I've spotted the reoccupation time, but never had the chance to measure it - didn't realise it was quite as quick as that though! - DVAs - two trains I got on today were automatically announcing that there was a good service on the line. I wonder how this works and whether it's somehow tied into one of the TfL feeds or databases.. I noticed that this morning, and I'm sure I've noticed at Green Park an automatic message about escalator availability, and at Victoria it announces that Brixton has no step free access... The problem I have is I've tended to switch off to the messages when commuting! Colin
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 21:21:12 GMT
The lift to the jubilee line at green park is getting replaced, that's what the message is on about
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 21:57:09 GMT
- DVAs - two trains I got on today were automatically announcing that there was a good service on the line. I wonder how this works and whether it's somehow tied into one of the TfL feeds or databases.. If I understand correctly, this is set at the control centre, sent as a message to the train radio which passes it to TCMS and CIS to play the messages. They can also select a number of disruption messages in the same way, such as closed stations etc. Edit (might be getting mixed up with another system) - either that or a text message to the train radio and the driver puts a code into CIS. Maybe Seaeagle can clarify.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2013 9:55:04 GMT
- Train frequency is really good. I knew it had improved but I measured platform reoccupation time today, from when the back of the train passed me to when the front of the next did. One at ~10:45am this morning was 39 seconds, one in the evening, at ~6:45pm was 19.8 seconds. I doubt that's sustainable all the time but the timetable does seem to be working well. Maybe trains are a little slower than their max as there's so little gap between them but the upside of this is that carriages are much less packed. Great stuff! The platform re-occupation time is the time from wheel start of the departing train to wheel stop of the arriving train. Thus the figures that you have used are not entirely accurate. However, 19.8 secs between trains passing a point in the platform is still impressive.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 8:17:12 GMT
Hi all!
Please could someone tell me whether trains 11015-11016 and 11067-11068 are currently available for service?
I have very poor sight, but a kind friend of mine (he probably won't be my friend for much longer :-)) sat with me through most of the WTT35 rush hour on Tuesday 21. May and the whole of it at Oxford Circus yesterday (Tuesday 28/05/13).
The cruel law of sod dictated that these two trains, which are my last two to spot were both in the 8 trains not used yesterday and didn't show up the week before either.
I'm hoping to repeat this feet next Tuesday, but will postpone it if these trains are currently out of service for whatever reason. Alternatively if anyone has the ability to diagram these two in next week, they may well save a valued friendship of many years standing and make a visually impaired 2009 stock fan extremely happy!!!.
Very many thanks in advance for any info someone may be able to provide.
Best wishes to all
Green Lion.
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Post by seaeagle on Jun 3, 2013 10:49:53 GMT
Hi all! Please could someone tell me whether trains 11015-11016 and 11067-11068 are currently available for service? I believe that 11015-11016 were OOS and 11067-11068 were spare last Tuesday. AFAIK both trains are available this week. All the drivers on the Victoria Line have just been given a badge to celebrate the running of 33 TPH for a whole week the week before last.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 3, 2013 11:11:55 GMT
[All the drivers on the Victoria Line have just been given a badge to celebrate the running of 33 TPH for a whole week the week before last. They should be collectors items then, as I doubt any more will be issued !
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 3, 2013 11:38:39 GMT
[All the drivers on the Victoria Line have just been given a badge to celebrate the running of 33 TPH for a whole week the week before last. They should be collectors items then, as I doubt any more will be issued ! Do you think there's ever potential to squeeze one more tph in to make it 34?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 15:57:49 GMT
Thanks Seaeagle! well! I'm going to try my luck again during tomorrow (Tuesday's rush hour) and hope I get lucky! I'll let you know how it goes, but thanks for your help.
Best Wishes
Green Lion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2013 8:59:21 GMT
All the drivers on the Victoria Line have just been given a badge to celebrate the running of 33 TPH for a whole week the week before last. I wonder if Moscow and Paris Metro drivers get a badge for running 38TPH?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2013 8:57:46 GMT
Hi All,
Well! unfortunately no luck yesterday in catching 11015-11016 and 11067-11068; neither of them featured in the 39 train line-up on Tuesday 04/06/13. There were 5 different trains in use last night, which weren't in use on Tuesday 28/05/13, but my two required ones + 11035-11036 haven't featured in either week's rush hour service.
Ah well! that's the way the cookie crumbles I guess. It'll be a few weeks now, before I try again, but hopefully I'll have better luck next time.
Many of the poor sods who sit through this with me and read the numbers out are beginning to doubt that there are trains with these numbers! and that they are merely figments of my imagination!. I do hope I can prove them wrong soon an that my sanity may remain mostly intact.
Many thanks though to Seaeagle and others for all the gen on here; its really appreciated.
Best Wishes To all
Green Lion.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 10, 2013 17:49:44 GMT
Do you think there's ever potential to squeeze one more tph in to make it 34? A feasibility study is due to report by the year end on 36tph on both Victoria (2017/18) and Jubilee Lines (2019/20).
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Post by superteacher on Jun 10, 2013 21:34:33 GMT
Do you think there's ever potential to squeeze one more tph in to make it 34? A feasibility study is due to report by the year end on 36tph on both Victoria (2017/18) and Jubilee Lines (2019/20). That's very interesting. What is the maximum theoretical service frequency on these lines with their respective signalling systems. Will be there be any attempt to run more than 30tph on the Central? Theoretically, this was designed to cope with 35tph, although 33tph was the target.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 15:08:09 GMT
Hi all!
Even though this thread has been very quiet recently, I wanted to share my recent success in finally spotting 11015-11016 and 11067-11068 during the peak hour 39 tph service on Tuesday 23. July.
I had been after these two for a while, but not being able to read the numbers myself, I'm wholly reliant on the good will of friends to do that for me. I'm glad to say I still have some of those too and the one, who came with me that evening also wanted 11035-11036 to complete his set and they all came round in fairly quick succession.
I was beginning to think that my remaining two had been hidden away somewhere, as I hadn't seen either of them during several previous attempts, but perseverance really does pay off in our wonderful hobby. The 39 tph seems to be running very well and many trains are pretty busy.
When is the 43 tph peak hour timetable due to start please? I guess that's a year or two off yet? Anyway thanks to all who provide gen on here; it really is very much appreciated!. My next goal is to hunt down my last two S8s! but that's for another thread :-)))
Best Wishes to everyone!
Green Lion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 15:40:56 GMT
Which two S8s?
21022-21021 is still out of service (derailment at Rickmansworth) and 21026-21025 (derailment at Neasden).
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Post by superteacher on Aug 4, 2013 16:10:14 GMT
Hi all! Even though this thread has been very quiet recently, I wanted to share my recent success in finally spotting 11015-11016 and 11067-11068 during the peak hour 39 tph service on Tuesday 23. July. I had been after these two for a while, but not being able to read the numbers myself, I'm wholly reliant on the good will of friends to do that for me. I'm glad to say I still have some of those too and the one, who came with me that evening also wanted 11035-11036 to complete his set and they all came round in fairly quick succession. I was beginning to think that my remaining two had been hidden away somewhere, as I hadn't seen either of them during several previous attempts, but perseverance really does pay off in our wonderful hobby. The 39 tph seems to be running very well and many trains are pretty busy. When is the 43 tph peak hour timetable due to start please? I guess that's a year or two off yet? Anyway thanks to all who provide gen on here; it really is very much appreciated!. My next goal is to hunt down my last two S8s! but that's for another thread :-))) Best Wishes to everyone! Green Lion. You are confusing two things here. Tph stands for trains per hour I.e. the number of trains that will pass through the most frequent section of the line in one hour. In the current timetable, this is 33 tph, provided by a total of 39 trains in service. This is due to be increased to 43 trains in the future. However, this will still provide 33 tph, but for a greater period of time. There are feasibility studies regarding the possibility of running up to 36 tph, but nothing concrete is planned yet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 12:11:25 GMT
Thanks so much to Reganorak and Superteacher for their informative replies and sorry for the confusion regarding TPH and the number of trains needed to operate that frequency of service.
Luckily my remaining two S8s are neither of the two derailment victims, although unless one of my friends misread something or I misheard them, we saw 21021-21022 back in traffic at Baker Street on 23. July; the same evening I got my last 2 2009 stock trains. Was the derailment of 21025-21026 a recnt thing? Apologies for the OT question.
Best Wishes to all
Green Lion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 8:50:10 GMT
There are planned modifications to the RTD system at Victoria Line termini to allow for faster train dispatching. I wonder if this is related to future investigation into running 36tph?
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 14, 2013 10:06:58 GMT
Does anyone have any idea what aspects will be looked at in the feasibility studies?
Off the top of my head, and I might well be wrong:
- Number of trains, ops, etc. needed - Emergency situations where you've got more trains than platforms - Reducing dwell time at stations - Terminal station arrangements (full speed obviously easier on the Vic than the Jub) - Engineering work to eliminate any permanent speed restrictions
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Post by superteacher on Aug 14, 2013 10:27:32 GMT
Does anyone have any idea what aspects will be looked at in the feasibility studies? Off the top of my head, and I might well be wrong: - Number of trains, ops, etc. needed - Emergency situations where you've got more trains than platforms - Reducing dwell time at stations - Terminal station arrangements (full speed obviously easier on the Vic than the Jub) - Engineering work to eliminate any permanent speed restrictions ADD - Changing passenger attitudes in terms of not obstructing the doors. There have always been more trains than platforms on the Vic, so this will be nothing new. Dwell times will be an issue, particularly at the crunch stations such as Victoria.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 23:01:34 GMT
ADD - Changing passenger attitudes in terms of not obstructing the doors. There have always been more trains than platforms on the Vic, so this will be nothing new. Dwell times will be an issue, particularly at the crunch stations such as Victoria. I think that would be the key issue. The signalling will support it because the full speed wheel start-wheel stop times south of Seven Sisters are all less than 60s, with the termini being less than 120s. The main thing that will stop the trains running to timetable is issues with passengers obstructing doors in the platform. The problem that will occur is, take Kings Cross to Euston as an example, the full speed wheel start wheel stop time for Euston is similar to the run time between stations (both approaching 60s). That means that if a southbound train departs Euston before a train has started to leave Kings Cross, the following train will either be slowed by or stop at the home signal/block marker board. Once such perturbations start to occur, there will be a knock on to other trains, and if further trains get delayed, they will soon become bunched, with many trains stopping between stations, or with runtimes being modified by ATR. If they don't mind the effect on runtimes, and trains stopping in tunnels frequently or having runtimes modified by ATR, I don't think 36 tph would be a problem.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 17, 2013 14:49:29 GMT
Does anyone have any idea what aspects will be looked at in the feasibility studies? Off the top of my head, and I might well be wrong: - Number of trains, ops, etc. needed - Emergency situations where you've got more trains than platforms - Reducing dwell time at stations - Terminal station arrangements (full speed obviously easier on the Vic than the Jub) - Engineering work to eliminate any permanent speed restrictions I would add (and I agree with the above and other responses) - confirmation that power supply is robust for prolonged 36 tph operation. If not then what worked is needed. - assessment of any tunnel heating impacts from more trains and people. - confirmation that existing tunnel cooling kit can cope with any impacts from the previous item - assessing any station impacts from trains disgorging / loading passengers more frequently - assessing whether line running and platform run in / run out times can be increased to raise line / train speeds - assessing asset health of track and impact to date of automatic operation on track wear to see if rectification work is required or preventative investment is needed for more intensive operation. - determining whether speed of operation of points and interlocks is sufficient for more intensive operation. - an assessment of what the impact will be on rolling stock from more intensive use. Can 36tph be achieved with existing train fleet? - if you need more drivers then is the staff accommodation sufficient on the line? I'd hope that it was given the spend in recent years!!
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