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Post by snoggle on May 25, 2012 12:29:04 GMT
Is there a programme underway to replace all of the old style DMIs (Dot Matrix Indicators) on the Victoria Line? I use the line rather less these days than in the past but recently noticed a display on the northbound platform at Tottenham Hale and also one "under test" on the southbound at Blackhorse Road.
I was rather surprised at how small the display boards are compared to the old wide but not tall design. Will these new displays just be at APD managed stations with the newer displays put in by Tube Lines at Green Park and Finsbury Park being kept or will all Victoria Line platforms get them?
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Post by malcolmffc on May 28, 2012 19:43:17 GMT
A new one at Vauxhall has also appeared in the last few weeks
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Post by causton on May 29, 2012 0:06:14 GMT
One at Barking - not showing anything but a piece of paper over it explaining what it is
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 11:28:56 GMT
I would also like to know the advantage of these new boards as 'snoggle' has mentioned above they are much smaller and harder to read than the old ones. There is one at Seven Sisters and it is being tested still it seems but it's so tiny and I struggle to read it if you're at the ends of the platform.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:27:35 GMT
I would also like to know the advantage of these new boards as 'snoggle' has mentioned above they are much smaller and harder to read than the old ones. There is one at Seven Sisters and it is being tested still it seems but it's so tiny and I struggle to read it if you're at the ends of the platform. +1 There also seems to be a great difficuly with clocks as well, there has been various attempts with new digital, LED and analogue clocks which are just visually inferior to clocks installed on the Undeground up until 20 years ago.
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Post by jamesb on Jun 9, 2012 17:09:43 GMT
I wondered why these boards (or all the boards in general) can't stick out the wall above the track rather then above the platform.
There are so many obstructions (fire signs, way out signs, air con units, projectors) that they are obstructed.
When you look up the platform above the track, there are no obstructions in site.
It makes much more sense of them to be above the train coming into the station (as long as they can be read once the train as entered)
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Jun 16, 2012 21:36:09 GMT
Highbury and Islington southbound, "Under test" I wondered why these boards (or all the boards in general) can't stick out the wall above the track rather then above the platform. There are so many obstructions (fire signs, way out signs, air con units, projectors) that they are obstructed. When you look up the platform above the track, there are no obstructions in site. It makes much more sense of them to be above the train coming into the station (as long as they can be read once the train as entered) If they were above the train, I don't think it would be possible to read them with a train in the platform. That said, how often do you need to read a Vic line DMI?
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Jun 17, 2012 3:53:06 GMT
There is one at Walthamstow but it was switched off when I last observed it. It is possible that the indicator is very new.
It is a bit like the Overground one.
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 17, 2012 8:22:55 GMT
I noticed these for the first time a few days ago at Pimlico. I've got good eyesight and they're absolutely appalling, I can't read them until I'm just a few metres away as they're *so* small and compressed. Cleverly, it's also at the other end of the platform to where people first reach the platform; I was watching and passengers' first instinct is to check the board, which they simply couldn't do. Talk about backward progress - or as Diamond Geezer said about the ones installed at Mile End a few years back as well as other locations, Installed by Crettins[/u] (some scrolling required). There's also a whole thread from here about this that I found from a couple of years ago. What is it with the contractors who install these and the management who authorise the work and sign the jobs off who don't ask themselves the most fundamental question: can people see them? I spoke to the person on the gateline about it and he gave a rye smile as if to suggest I hadn't been the first one to mention it. Perhaps someone from TfL Towers will be reading this. If they are, frankly, the people who've done this are muppets.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2012 9:22:59 GMT
Is the type you lot are talking about like the one at KXSP SSL on the northbound? Because thats fairly small
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Post by snoggle on Jun 17, 2012 16:49:16 GMT
I noticed these for the first time a few days ago at Pimlico. I've got good eyesight and they're absolutely appalling, I can't read them until I'm just a few metres away as they're *so* small and compressed. Cleverly, it's also at the other end of the platform to where people first reach the platform; I was watching and passengers' first instinct is to check the board, which they simply couldn't do. Talk about backward progress - or as Diamond Geezer said about the ones installed at Mile End a few years back as well as other locations, Installed by Crettins[/u] (some scrolling required). There's also a whole thread from here about this that I found from a couple of years ago. What is it with the contractors who install these and the management who authorise the work and sign the jobs off who don't ask themselves the most fundamental question: can people see them? I spoke to the person on the gateline about it and he gave a rye smile as if to suggest I hadn't been the first one to mention it. Perhaps someone from TfL Towers will be reading this. If they are, frankly, the people who've done this are muppets. [/quote] I think you're being unfair to the Muppets. ;D They're successful celebrities, TV and film stars and make people laugh. My eyesight isn't quite what it was but I have no difficulty with the old DMIs. The new ones however ......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 17:55:47 GMT
I've got good eyesight and they're absolutely appallingThe recent insistance in having DMIs display info in Sentance Case rather than CAPITALS doesn't help either, imo. I have not-very-good eyesight and now have increasing difficulty in reading the DMIs all over the system as more and more of them are converted to Sentance Case.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 18:36:50 GMT
I saw the new DMIs at Vauxhall today and I agree that they are useless. Both the size of the letters and the spacing between letters is too small meaning that unless you are within a couple of metres of the sign all you can see is an orange blur! What was wrong with the new DMIs as fitted at other Victoria line stations such as Oxford Circus and Finsbury Park?
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Post by alfie on Jun 23, 2012 18:41:36 GMT
Which minority?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 18:42:51 GMT
I saw the new DMIs at Vauxhall today and I agree that they are useless. Both the size of the letters and the spacing between letters is too small meaning that unless you are within a couple of metres of the sign all you can see is an orange blur! It would also help if they were actually showing updating countdown information rather than being "stuck" showing three train (or two on the northbound) details that never change (I:E; they just stay showing the same number of mins-to-arrival as various trains come and go).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 18:44:54 GMT
I have poor eyesight and find the Sentance-Case style of DMI display very hard to read compared to the CAPITALS version.
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Post by crusty54 on Jun 23, 2012 18:50:16 GMT
I've got good eyesight and they're absolutely appallingThe recent insistance in having DMIs display info in Sentance Case rather than CAPITALS doesn't help either, imo. I too have not-very-good eyesight and now have increasing difficulty in reading the DMIs all over the system as more and more of them are converted to Sentance Case. Upper and lower case messages are normally easier to read - witness the use on the Underground map from the 1980s and the directional signage at stations. The same is true with modern bus destination blinds. However, around 10% of the male population (and some women) have a colour vision defect. This means that colours are not recognised and contrasts are important. The black/orange displays are not a good choice. The first DMI at St James's Park had red/black displays. A colour blind person I was showed the new installation was unable to read it. Black and white is best, yellow as second choice. Anything else no thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 18:53:21 GMT
Upper and lower case messages are normally easier to read . As someone with poor eyesight, I have personally not found that to be the case adn vastly preferred the capitals-only DMIs.
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Post by alfie on Jun 23, 2012 18:53:36 GMT
I have poor eyesight and find the Sentance-Case style of DMI display very hard to read compared to the CAPITALS version. Thus it wouldn't be helping you..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 18:57:48 GMT
I wonder why orange/black DMIs have pretty much become the standard if they do not provide a good enough contrast? Interestingly Lothian buses has for the first time specified buses with electronic destination boards and they have opted for white/black, as shown: www.flickr.com/photos/45168281@N05/7403783194/Do you think these provide a good enough contast? (edited to fix link)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 19:05:54 GMT
Personally I've never had any problems with the orange/black colouring and find it stands out clearly in most lighting/weather conditions.
I note one or two LU DMIs use red lettering and those seem OK (as did the DLR ones - although I also note these are being changed over to orange).
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 23, 2012 19:27:57 GMT
The recent insistance in having DMIs display info in Sentance Case rather than CAPITALS doesn't help either, imo. I too have not-very-good eyesight and now have increasing difficulty in reading the DMIs all over the system as more and more of them are converted to Sentance Case. Upper and lower case messages are normally easier to read - witness the use on the Underground map from the 1980s and the directional signage at stations. The same is true with modern bus destination blinds. However, around 10% of the male population (and some women) have a colour vision defect. This means that colours are not recognised and contrasts are important. The black/orange displays are not a good choice. The first DMI at St James's Park had red/black displays. A colour blind person I was showed the new installation was unable to read it. Black and white is best, yellow as second choice. Anything else no thanks. It's nothing to do with the contrast in this case - the previous boards were orange on black, too. The old-style ones were much wider and therefore the lettering spread out - the new ones are very much more condensed and as a result exceedingly hard impossible to read so far away from where one enters the platform area. If they want to use these DMIs, fine, but relocate them to nearer the entrance. I repeat my previous point that someone somewhere must have checked these, authorised the work and checked it before signing the work off.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 23, 2012 22:17:57 GMT
the theory is that with Sentence Case, having more variety in letter size than BLOCK CAPITALS, it is easier to distinguish the overall shapes of words froma distance where the actual letters cannot be discerned.
For example Victoria and Vauxhall look different because of the tall "l"s at the and of the latter.
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Post by crusty54 on Jun 24, 2012 7:50:24 GMT
the theory is that with Sentence Case, having more variety in letter size than BLOCK CAPITALS, it is easier to distinguish the overall shapes of words froma distance where the actual letters cannot be discerned. For example Victoria and Vauxhall look different because of the tall "l"s at the and of the latter. It's also to do with space around the letters. Without space it is very hard to make out words. The new displays fail in so many ways.
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Post by djlynch on Jun 24, 2012 22:02:43 GMT
I suspect nobody has never tested the sentence case thing on anything as low-resolution as the platform DMIs. Something like that is really pushing the limits for minimum number of pixels without making it impossible to accurately render the shapes of letters. AIUI from my computer interface design class at uni, the genesis of sentence case being better is from research done on motorway signage where every letter has sharp edges and is in a typeface designed for reading at a distance, not on glowing signs that approximate the shape of letters.
However, for me, sentence case is easier to read in some instances. For finding one specific word or phrase in a sea of text (say, a station name on a mainline departure board), I find that I can just scan it instead of taking the time to read every piece of information until I find what I'm looking for.
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 25, 2012 9:09:46 GMT
Written about here by Diamond Geezer in today's free issue [no paywall]
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Post by trt on Jun 25, 2012 10:02:18 GMT
These new DMIs are awful. I can't read them from the end of the platform where I stand. Sentence case is so much easier to read than ALL CAPS.
I do like the green and black DMIs that London Midland have on their Desiro's. They are very easy to read from a distance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 12:36:25 GMT
I do like the green and black DMIs that London Midland have on their Desiro's. They are very easy to read from a distance. Are those the flip-dot displays? I find them fantastically better than most LED displays (they kick sand in the face of most Electrostars' poxy, undersized displays), and wish more signs would use flip dots.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 17:58:59 GMT
The darn things still don't actually work anyway!
If you stand on the platform, you'll see that the info never changes; nomatter how many trains come and go, the time-to-arrival and destinations remain fixed and unchanging.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 11:11:08 GMT
Just to add further insult to injury.. Anyone else notice the new cooling fans at Green Park are so big and the new destination boards so small that they are covered up by the cooling fans and you can't see it anyway even if they letters were each 1 foot tall? I assume Oxford Circus suffers from the same problem.
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