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Post by jamesb on May 5, 2012 19:18:47 GMT
As has been mentioned elsewhere, as seems to be the solution to many safety related problems - a new sign to stick on the train!
Is it feasible to have a loud, uncomfortable alarm fitted that would sound if a door was held open or obstructed?
Or red flashing lights around the door, as is the case in many refurbished lifts?
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Post by vic09 on May 5, 2012 19:35:52 GMT
To be honest with you, there will allways be someone who obstructs the doors. Like one time i was on the Central line, and these two American blokes got on, and the both put there foot in the door. When they eventually got on, I hear them go, "my god I thought it was like an elevator where you put your foot in the door and it would reopen". I was so tempted to say, errr mate, if it was like that the train would never, leave the platform!! Because everybody would do it!!! The buzzer would be a good idea, however I do think knowbody would take any notice, and it would just get very annoying!!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 20:14:37 GMT
Razor blades or perhaps a laser guided Gatling gun connected to a sensitive door detector may eliminate the problem of people keeping doors open, but may just fail the 'elf & safety.
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Post by jamesb on May 5, 2012 22:16:27 GMT
On the 09ts the electronic door mechanism which 'freezes' the door open almost invites people to hold it open... Especially in front of the entrances... Because it makes no noise and doesn't seem to resist the person holding it open, people just keep piling in through the open door... Well occasionally they do anyway!
What about the whole door vibrating, like a mobile phone on vibrate...
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Post by jamesb on May 5, 2012 22:17:07 GMT
Razor blades or perhaps a laser guided Gatling gun connected to a sensitive door detector may eliminate the problem of people keeping doors open, but may just fail the 'elf & safety. Would probably be fine as long as it was accompanied by another warning sticker!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 17:47:49 GMT
A loud piercing obstruction alarm like this U.S. fire alarm.
and if the obstruction should continue, secondary alarms should sound on the platforms, like this.
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Post by phillw48 on May 6, 2012 18:44:06 GMT
The simplest method will be to replace the sensitive edges with an operating belt from a chain saw. ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 20:42:19 GMT
How about speeding up the door closure speed?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 21:31:46 GMT
How about speeding up the door closure speed? Would not be allowed, might bruise someone.... It would be successful though at keeping people out of doors, get hit and you would not do it again!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on May 6, 2012 21:55:46 GMT
Cover the rubber with foul smelling oil? The flashing red idea sounds promising though. Wire up a few extra bright LEDs into the sensitive edge, make them pulse when the dor is about to close and closing. Could have a decent psychological effect.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 22:23:14 GMT
How about speeding up the door closure speed? Would not be allowed, might bruise someone.... It would be successful though at keeping people out of doors, get hit and you would not do it again! How about a Boris train with the doors left open.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 5:04:00 GMT
How about a Boris train with the doors left open. Hop on hop off break neck....I like it. There is no solution, this will always happen and it will remain the main cause of delays on the Tube even after they've got rid of all the TOps in the cabs. Read Seneca, Marcus Aurelius or the other Stoics, learn to accept that which is beyond your control and not let it create destructive emotions within you.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on May 7, 2012 5:36:03 GMT
Would not be allowed, might bruise someone.... It would be successful though at keeping people out of doors, get hit and you would not do it again! How about a Boris train with the doors left open. Time for this pic again - see, there's nothing new! Regular occurrence with hand-worked doors in the summer. And as for faster closing doors, you should have tried using the EDO set of 59ts on the Picc. No warning, lightning-fast closing and being electric motors no way of forcing them back or keeping them open ..........but then nobody bothered much about the visually mattered here at least...
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Post by v52gc on May 7, 2012 9:30:34 GMT
They actually reduced the air pressure on the 73s during refurb I've been told! But I agree some sort of bell/alarm for doors obstructed, just to show passengers it's a naughty thing to do. But as aslefshrugged has put it, it will always happen!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 9:43:02 GMT
How about speeding up the door closure speed?[/quote] Not LU,but as a fairly horrible child on an outing with parents in tow I put my foot in the closing doors of a '306',The doors came to rest against my foot then opened by about six inches and with a gush of air slammed shut hard leaving me hopping about and howling.Years later I was told the guards had figured a way to slam them to clear things like fag packets!.
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Post by jamesb on May 7, 2012 9:58:14 GMT
My original point was that in a trains costing several million pounds each (e.g. 09ts), with an age age-long and predictable problem, surely we can come up with something better then a yellow sticker?!
The door could vibrate, like a stick shaker on an aeroplane about to stall? Or some sort of buzzer as mentioned... Particularly on the 09ts...
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 10:18:10 GMT
Hmm, the trouble is even if aware of the problem people will not change. Last week I was on the Jubilee line at about 7pm. Train was rammed, some idiot decided he WAS getting on, forced his way in, and then had his bag hanging over the doorway - I pointed this out to him and he just plain ignored me - until as the door shut it pulled his bag and he nearly fell over. I had to suppress a giggle!!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 13:06:22 GMT
How about a Boris train with the doors left open. Time for this pic again - see, there's nothing new! Regular occurrence with hand-worked doors in the summer. And as for faster closing doors, you should have tried using the EDO set of 59ts on the Picc. No warning, lightning-fast closing and being electric motors no way of forcing them back or keeping them open ..........but then nobody bothered much about the visually mattered here at least... A lovely photo and I like your comment about nothing new. Londoner's should have open platform trains again. A Boris Linemaster? ;D Regarding, as you mention, that 1959 stock electric door motor experiment and unlike the restricted air pressure on normal LT door motors,I have heard from first hand experience, that this was not the case with the electric motors which would grind away until the door closed.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 13:18:39 GMT
Hmm, the trouble is even if aware of the problem people will not change. Last week I was on the Jubilee line at about 7pm. Train was rammed, some idiot decided he WAS getting on, forced his way in, and then had his bag hanging over the doorway - I pointed this out to him and he just plain ignored me - until as the door shut it pulled his bag and he nearly fell over. I had to suppress a giggle!! There used to be a guard on the District Line who knew how to deal which such situations. On one occasion with a passenger on platform with his umbrella stuck in the doors and refusing to pull it out and let the train go, the guard made his way down through the cars and where the umbrella was he pulled it through the doors and snapped it in half in front of the passenger.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 13:35:19 GMT
haha, that sounds like the right approach!!
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Post by jardine01 on May 7, 2012 15:34:42 GMT
It is annoying when people obstruct the doors why do they do it? Surely they cant wait 2 minutes for the next one? I think some sort of audio alarm should be sounded when they are obstructing the doors and alerts the driver which carriage door is being obstructed so its easier for the driver to identify the doors which are being obstructed. I am coming on the tube in June so I should witness this selfish act!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 7, 2012 17:07:02 GMT
I think some sort of audio alarm should be sounded when they are obstructing the doors and alerts the driver which carriage door is being obstructed so its easier for the driver to identify the doors which are being obstructed. We already have indications in the cab when doors are failing to close - it's called a door closed visual (or pilot light) and if it doesn't illuminate there must, by definition, be a door that hasn't fully closed. Additionally, we won't be able to motor (and on D stocks this is indeed accompanied by an audible alarm). Most stocks now are also able to give an indication of the car concerned in the cab......and all stocks have outside door indicators on each car. Couple that with the CCTV/mirrors and it's not usually hard to work out what's going on & where along the train. Educating passengers, sorry customers, is the only way forward.
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Post by angelislington on May 7, 2012 19:17:43 GMT
Educating passengers, sorry customers, is the only way forward. And that hasn't worked in close on 100 years, so...
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Post by rsdworker on May 7, 2012 19:27:12 GMT
on copehagen metro - there simllar problem - we was boarding with alot people through doors (one door failed) the man front of me fell from train as doors hit him which landed on PED doors that was closing - there was warning - loud warning alert and there was LED flasher above doors but PEDS had no safety preventer eg holding doors till its was cleared fully so i had legs hurt because i was in wheelchair and doors hit my legs which i had formal complaint to Metro (who owns the metro system in copehagen) but if its happened in london then PEDS should have fitted a flashing lights and loud warning tones and extra safety features eg doors hold till area cleared and can be safety closed once area is cleared good example of safety but on airtrain (birmgham airport) there safety feature which prevents doors from closing on persons like elevator doors - i saw two people rush in before doors closed but doors reopened straightaway after detected them twice then after few minutes the area was clear and its closed properly - that way is safest way and on mainline trains with electric doors - turbostars and newer class - those trains have safety devices which prevents doors from hitting person - i saw person walk in as doors close but they reopened quickly and waited for person to clear area and the doors closed properly
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on May 7, 2012 19:50:40 GMT
Educating passengers, sorry customers, is the only way forward. And that hasn't worked in close on 100 years, so... ...in fact,the picture posted by Phil seems to lead us to conclude that people have become less educable over time,rather than more...
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Phil
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Post by Phil on May 9, 2012 21:45:09 GMT
...in fact,the picture posted by Phil seems to lead us to conclude that people have become less educable over time,rather than more... In real terms, what's happened it that common sense (education) has been totally replaced by elfin safety (other officials' thoughts) and we all know that elfins can go where they like and do what they want........
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Post by jardine01 on May 9, 2012 21:53:02 GMT
On our metro in Newcastle we kind of have the same problem! its mainly just people holding them open or forcing them open but it breaks the mechinaisim in the doors and quite often the train is stuck We have a £1,000 fine if you obstruct the doors maybe the tube could bring a fine for doing it?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 23:06:30 GMT
TfL byelaws do have that provision I believe...
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 8:40:34 GMT
I’m sure there used to be a fine for obstructing the doors but how do you suggest it is levied?
A member of staff on every platform who stops a train when they see an infringement then keeps it there until the offender gives their name and address? An excellent way to turn a 10 second delay into a 2-3 minute one. If they refuse to give the information or leave the train do we hold the train, shut down the line and wait for BTP to arrive?
All of which is highly unlikely as our current management seem keen on reducing staff numbers rather than expanding them. Far easier to accept that some passengers will block the doors and get on with the job of keep the service moving.
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Post by causton on May 13, 2012 14:20:28 GMT
Find some RPIs to issue penalties in the same way they would deal with fare evaders. Find one - drag them off the train, deal with them on the platform. Simple You'd need 2 or possibly 3 of them which of course is a big commitment to staffing levels, but... gets in some extra revenue for TfL
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