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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2005 8:43:13 GMT
This is mostly a question for Q8 - I was curious if he remembered any contemporary details about the 1963 experiment on the e/b District from Stamford Brook to Ravenscourt Park, where a single east-facing DM of a District train was equipped with prototype ATO/ATP and able to drive itself.
I'm mainly curious as to what type of rolling stock it used and what the motormen had to say abotu a train that moved itself.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 27, 2005 9:19:15 GMT
I'm mainly curious as to what type of rolling stock it used I have a book (back at my parents) which refers to the testing... I understand that a 'R' stock unit was used... I seem to remember that the photo of the stock in the book showed that it had an ariel sticking out the front of it... (a bit like a 'T' shaped example that I can remember having on top a portable TV in the late 1980's)... or were they just trying to pick up a radio station ;D Am I right in assuming that this was a pre-cursor to the ATO system employed on the DLR
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Post by q8 on Aug 27, 2005 9:36:46 GMT
Well it was before my time but i'll do my best. The car used was "R" stock 22686 which was one of the 1947 build and so all-aluminium. The cabs in these cars were like modern "Horse Boxes" in that they were very narrow. They also had 5 passenger seats behind the cab instead of 3.
The method used was coded track circuits a la (but before) the Victoria line and only operated eastbound between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park. The starting buttons were above and behind the controller in the same fashion that the door buttons are on an "A" stock now.
Any driver could work it but it was generally rostered to a special Acton Town duty and the crew were the same each week. I think it may have been the "depot furniture" that had the turn it being a special train. By saying special train I don't mean it ran speacial. It' didn't it ran in normal WTT workings and was driven normally outside the test area.
One of the mods to this car was the fitting of an enormous brake handle which had mercury switches inside it instead of slide or poppet valves. This handle outlasted the experiment by years and was a bloody curse to be honest. It never worked the same way twice. At one station you could practically stand the train on end. The next station you thought the damn brake had failed. That was how unreliable it was.
Incidentally at the same time as these experiments were taking place a different (and unpublicised) one was running with a ballast loco.. This was the fitting of a DIGITAL speedometer. Now I am not sure as to exactly how it was driven but it was phenominally accurate.
I will give you an example. When a train is braked and stopped it "compress's" in length and stays that way until the brake is released when it "de-compress's" again. This speedo was so accurate and sensitive it registered this decompression on the display as 3 mph
As for crew reaction it was first treated light heartedly then when it proved a sucess (where's Chris W?) it was loved by all had chance to have a go on it.
I hope that answers your question
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Aug 27, 2005 9:40:14 GMT
I'm mainly curious as to what type of rolling stock it used Am I right in assuming that this was a pre-cursor to the ATO system employed on the DLR Not for the DLR - this was the testing for the Victoria line. Following the trials on the District, full scale trials were carried out on the Hainault - Woodford loop of the Central line using the Cravens 1960 stock. The trials for the DLR were ALSO carried out on the Hainault - Woodford loop, again using a 1960 stock, but this time it was known as the FACT train, for Fully Automatically Controlled Train. These tests were carried out in about 1981, and the main difference was that the train would open and close the doors itself as well as driving.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 27, 2005 20:27:27 GMT
The FACT also had a code that would "toot" the whistle as it started up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2005 21:09:41 GMT
The trials for the DLR were ALSO carried out on the Hainault - Woodford loop, again using a 1960 stock, but this time it was known as the FACT train, for Fully Automatically Controlled Train. These tests were carried out in about 1981, and the main difference was that the train would open and close the doors itself as well as driving. Some questions about the FACT train: Did it only operate at night? If it could open and close the doors itself, how would it know that station duties were complete? (I know it didn't run in passenger service) Was there a 73TS FACT train? Thanks Dave
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Aug 27, 2005 21:48:28 GMT
Although most of the testing was done on nights, it did also run during the day as well. I was working in Woodford cabin as a box boy at the time, but never got any pictures of it I do remember it had a hand-made sign in the destination box with F.A.C.T. on it. One of the signalmen at Woodford at the time had an ongoing row with the project team about the way they were doing the testing (they wanted to take a possession, give it up again when the train went back to Hainault, so other teams could work on the track, then take another possession when the train came back again ) As a result he was invited to attend some of the meetings about what FACT was about, and he raised some of his concerns. I remember one of his concerns was, what if the train broke down, and there was no driver to get it moving again. The project team told him the computers would allow the train behind to come up and assist. He then asked 'What if it was the last train at night that sat down?' That caused a few red faces ;D I don't think any 73s were used for the FACT tests, although at least one of the ETTs (Experimental Tube Trains) which were 73s was tested out on the Hainault - Woodford loop in the early 80's
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